Primer Failure??

[LarryBud]

I don't shoot as much as I once did so material rotation may not be great. I prefer Win 209's because they are long and seal up nicely in the Knight / Lehigh BPs.

Two years ago I was hunting the antlerless season and had a FTF. I had time to change out Primers and never found the orginal in the hubabalou of the hunt. Never gave it too much thought afterward.

Last night I'm punching paper and had one ( likely the same 100 lot of Win 209s ) FTF. I reloaded it several times. The firing pin beat that primer to smithers. Never touched off. I'm done with that lot but have you all had this happen? I think about all the old shotgun shells I've shot as a Kid and now, some of them decade old and never a problem. I'm guessing I've had them for perhaps, 5 -8 years? There was a shortage at one time and I stocked up.

 

[Widude]

Stored properly, primers should last many years past the time you mention. It sounds like there was a good ‘dent’ in the primer, but no fire.

There may be a very slight difference in how primers seat, very slight. If the ‘dent’ wasn’t prominent, you could look into the firing pin strike some.

I’m still working through my 1k supply of CCIM 209 primers. With a clean gun, I about never get a misfire. One may get one shot at that big 10 point all season, no time for the gun not to fire.

 

[LarryBud]

One may get one shot at that big 10 point all season, no time for the gun not to fire.

That's my worry^^^^.

With multple attempts to fire it, the pin hammered the primer hard and repeatedly. I could see it all dented up. On to a new lot. Hope it doesn't happen again. The other failure was a different gun BTW.

 

[bestill]

That's my worry^^^^.

With multple attempts to fire it, the pin hammered the primer hard and repeatedly. I could see it all dented up. On to a new lot. Hope it doesn't happen again. The other failure was a different gun BTW.

Are you certain primer didn't fire?
Look at front of primer and verify it didn't ignite?

 

[LarryBud]

Are you certain primer didn't fire?
Look at front of primer and verify it didn't ignite?

Yes. No soot. Unfired Primer.

 

[bestill]

Im asking cause I get this call alot and typically the colored disc in front of primer is gone and bullet is not on powder charge anymore.

But shooter heard nothing.

Typically issue is flame channel carbon or first shot of day and didn't clear breech plug

 

[Ninering62]

Stored properly, primers should last many years past the time you mention. It sounds like there was a good ‘dent’ in the primer, but no fire.

There may be a very slight difference in how primers seat, very slight. If the ‘dent’ wasn’t prominent, you could look into the firing pin strike some.

I’m still working through my 1k supply of CCIM 209 primers. With a clean gun, I about never get a misfire. One may get one shot at that big 10 point all season, no time for the gun not to fire.

View attachment 8785

Great post & beautiful buck.
I've been shooting shotgun since between 7&8yrs old & rifle a cpl yrs later. I've got 25yrs plus of ML's too- both traditional percussion sidelocks & inlines. Until I got my Paramount with the Variflames using LRP's. I've very rarely experienced a misfire due to a bad primer. I'm using CCI LRP BR-2 primers. Out of the first 25 shots I had 4 FTF's & all 4 primers look no diff than any other primer that had functioned properly. IDK if it was the primers or how they were set into the Variflame modules or what? But I'm so glad that none of the FTF's prevented me from puttin meat in the freezer for the yr.
I did stop using the little alum prime/deprime setup that came with the gun & bought a RCBS hand primer ( that thing is just great ) one of the primer FTF's were from using that too. Again, to me, putting the FTF next to the fired one, I could tell no difference. I'll be back shooting it again next wk when I get my barrel & brake back from gunsmith.
I've had 4 inlines .50 using 209 primers & out of all those yrs & hundreds & hundreds if rounds out of them, I can only remember a cpl FTF's . Nuthin to even bat an eye over there. I don't remember ever havin a #11 FTF

 

[LarryBud]

I wish I would have kept the Primer for photographic eveidence. Trust me, it didn't fire and the pin beat the snot out of it.

I'll just write it off as an abnomality.

 

[Far Sighted]

I had 2 FTF with Remington 270 Winchester rounds.

Using CCI 209m primers never.

My son had FTF at a very unfortunate time on a nice 8 pt with I rattled up. He snapped it a few times then changes to another primer with same result. Only it wasn't the ML primer it was a stuck firing pin.

 

[Widude]

My buddy had a wall hanger at 30 yards, then a misfire. I think he was to casual about setting up, once his ‘secondary safety’ prevented ignition. Now he’s bare primer, with a Lehigh plug, no more issues. He also checks that secondary safety.

 

[Squeeze]

I used to reload a lot of shotgun. By far my mainstay was win 209's, but ive used a lot of brands. Typically I would expect 1 or less primer failures in a case of 1000. for the most part, there should be none. if the firing pin puts a decent dent there, true primer failure should be well under a tenth of 1% (<.01)

 

[Lee 9]

Do you clean your firing pin, crud gathers in the bushing and can cause FTF by slowing the strike.

 

[LarryBud]

Do you clean your firing pin, crud gathers in the bushing and can cause FTF by slowing the strike.

Good point Lee, Cleaning and Oiling my pin is part of each clean up job. With the Knight Bolt Assemly, it's an easy task. It is possible the the strike to the primer was not as violent as it should have been ( although I did continue on with my range session with no other issues ). Could the pin cocking spring be weakening? Perhaps? But again, it happened with two different rifles with the same box of 100 primers.

 

[moridgerunner]

Email Winchester, they might help. Contact Us | Winchester Ammunition

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Good point Lee, Cleaning and Oiling my pin is part of each clean up job. With the Knight Bolt Assemly, it's an easy task. It is possible the the strike to the primer was not as violent as it should have been ( although I did continue on with my range session with no other issues ). Could the pin cocking spring be weakening? Perhaps? But again, it happened with two different rifles with the same box of 100 primers.

Is there a chance that the primers got wet? I had some W209s that i thought were questionable last year. What is the lot number of yours?

 

[Sideshow]

Do you clean your firing pin, crud gathers in the bushing and can cause FTF by slowing the strike.

Thats part of the reason i like Federal primers best . They still will go off with a lighter strike than Any other brand . I hunt out in the weather in our December Michigan mz season , snow and ice can be a problem sometimes . I also have the habit of using a bit stiffer firing pin spring just in case . The bonus is a quicker lock time too . It dont hurt to "stack the deck" in your favor if possible !!! I will use every trick in the book if i can . Huntin is Serious Bussiness !!!

 

[jlynch75]

All my muzzle loaders use #11 (I like RWS but have a hard time finding them). As for life span of 209's (I've reloaded shotgun shells since 1976) and have 209's dated 1986 and never had one fail.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I've had my best luck with Federal primers. They are shorter and I need to use an o-ring to seal them but they're the hottest primers and always fire off for me.

 

[Idaholewis]

I had 1 Failure years ago, it was a Winchester 209, I shot Thousands of them in Sporting Clays, Trap, and 5 Stand, It was one of my Hand Loaded Shells, I was Meticulous with Loading, I have no idea why that 1 Failed? The other 99 From the Same Box Fired perfectly

 

[Sideshow]

All my muzzle loaders use #11 (I like RWS but have a hard time finding them). As for life span of 209's (I've reloaded shotgun shells since 1976) and have 209's dated 1986 and never had one fail.

With #11 primers FTF have been a bigger problem for me . Fitment on the nipple being the worst offender for FTF . My Super 91 seems to work best with a Remington cap . Back in the day the BK92 Knight seemed to prefer CCI's . Ive actually never found any RWS caps for sale by me !!! I always thought that a bit weird . Love to try them but i may never know how theyd do !!! Ive always Heard they are the Best #11 caps .