Range Report

[jcchartboy]

I took two quick trips to the range both last night, and this morning. I have a lot a new stuff, (and some old) that I have been trying to work the wrinkles out of.

As many of you know I just got my HB about a month and a half. This weekend was my second trip to the range with it. Unfortunately the temperatures have been 85-95 degrees every time I have made it out.

I have been shooting reloader 7, with mmp short black sabots, and 300gr XTP's. My hope was to simply get this setup to shoot reasonably consistent 2-3 in groups before trying to mix things up too much.

The reason I am shooting the reloader 7 is that it was the only decent powder I could get my hands on locally the first day I went out. Others have shot good groups with the above combination and I thought it would be a reasonable place to start.

I have had decent success on my previous trip achieving 2-3 in groups. However, they were not consistent with occasional 4-6 in groups thrown in.

The past trip I was using a Lee dipper. I quickly realized that was a road to mediocrity, at best. I decided to get a Hornady Pacific M beam balance for a reasonable price to take care of my powder measuring needs.

I was hopeful that alone would help bring some more consistency to my groups.

Another area I felt could use some help was my rests. I have previously been using a Tite-group Brute rest for most of my shooting.
http://www.titegroup.com/

using the Tite-group

These rests really excel at absorbing recoil and aiding in sighting in new scopes etc. Unfortunately, they do not provide the accuracy necessary for really shrinking group size. I had been looking for new set of rests for a while. After consulting a few friends, (Chuck included), I decided on ?The Rock? up front and a Protektor bag in bag. Of course it quickly became obvious I could spend an additional 35$ and take a huge step up in functionality and get the Rock BR, so this is the path I went.

Admittedly, I had a lot of new elements being thrown into the mix this weekend, and I was in a bit of a rush both days. However it seems the consistency of my accuracy went out the window. I would have an occasional series of great shots, only to be followed up by somewhat random groups. After assessing the situation I came to the realization that barrel heating was part of it. After slowing down to allow the barrel more cooling time the groups did tighten up. However when the day was done, I really felt I had done my job, (shooting wise), yet the consistency just wasn?t there. Here is a perfect example of my weekend?.Below is the last 3 shot group of the weekend. You can guess which shots are 1 and 2. Then you can imagine how I felt after seeing 3.

Now I know the first thing that came to my mind. I was thinking I just couldn?t shoot. So at the end of the first night I took out my Savage 210 shotgun to check my accuracy with a factory load. I quickly shot 3 reasonably good shots, and then admittedly a bad fourth shot. The important part being, I knew the moment I made the bad shot. It was easy to call. Below is the group. (The 5th shot is from Jcchartgirl).

So?.at the end of the second day when I was getting frustrated, I decided to try the 210 again. I shot three shots, and again an almost identical repeat of last night. When I say identical?I mean identical?.as in I realized that the group I shot the previous night was likely a reasonably tight group that had strung due to a hot barrel. And the same thing had just happened. On each day I shot a three shot group that was evenly strung apart. Both taped almost exactly 3 in in length, and moved apart at almost exactly the same angle. My point here being, I am fairly confident I was shooting much better than the results from the 10ml were indicating.

Savage 210 day 2

Obviously I will start investigating some new load/bullet combinations. I would just be interested in hearing any comments/suggestion on my experiences this weekend.

Thanks in advance JEFF


A Few More Pics?..

 

[big6x6]

The FIRST thing I would do it order some powder from Midsouth. Just swallow the $20.00 haz mat and order some. I'd at LEAST get some N-110 for 250grs and although I have had NO experience with it, some N-120 for 300grs. I KNOW your time is worth the $20.00 hat mat(but NO tax!). Order you 1000 primers while you are at it. You'll so thru them AND the price will never be better. Maybe you and a bud can spit the haz mat.

Good job on the powder scale. I have used that very Hornady scale for YEARS before I went to the Dillon. ALSO...VERY good buy on the rest! That is one good looking rest and bag! How do you like it?

 

[jcchartboy]

The money is no issue in that manner. You are right, those things pay for themselves in the long run. I just didn't want to order anything until I knew what I wanted.

I already have a 100 count box of 250gr xtp's.....

Honestly, I wasn't sure I needed all the bells and whistles on that rest, as I had never used anything like it. I truely respect your opinion Chuck. When you implied it was the right way to go, there was never any question in my mind whether I should get it.

After using it.......I am absolutley amazed at how much more confident I feel in my benchrest shooting abilities. It really is incredible....Thanks again for the great advice...

 

[Doohan]

Buy N110/N120 from EABCO .. I just ordered yesterday... You 2 need to split the shipment and get 2 lbs each..
I got 8lbs.. RW posted the link awhile back

https://www.eabco.com/VVuori01.html

 

[schoolmaster]

It looks to me like you are experiencing the Savage Syndrom. It puts two shots almost touching and the third out. Now I noted that the temperature is 85 to 90 degrees. Cooling time is very important. Touch your barrel about 3 to 4 inches in front of the breech plug and if it feels the least bit warm let it cool. Also you can reduce powder charges 10% and use a milder primer such as the WW 209. That rifle acts like it wants to shoot. You jusat have to force yourself to slow down. I have waited as much as 30 minutes between shots. I also sometimes use a wonder wad between the powder and the saboted bullet. If the barrel feels warm on the outside it is really warm on the inside. I once went by the range early on 3 successive mornings and fired one shot on the same target each morning. I was having doubts about my shooting ability and the load I was using. The group turned out just under 1 inch. Heat was the culprite.

 

[DeerNut]

?.Below is the last 3 shot group of the weekend. You can guess which shots are 1 and 2. Then you can imagine how I felt after seeing 3.

Hey jcchartboy,
I agree with schoolmaster, since I have several groups that look exactly the same way yours do...its really uncanny.

After I talked to Randy Wakeman, and he explained any barrel heat is too much heat, I realized this was my problem. I think 62 grs of Reloader 7 is a great load ( low presure/good velocity) other than the heavy kick. I use the same sissy pad when shooting it..LOL.

Take your time and I think you'll have three holes touching!!

 

[jcchartboy]

Cooling time is very important. Touch your barrel about 3 to 4 inches in front of the breech plug and if it feels the least bit warm let it cool...

It was quite warm just about everytime, except around the time of those two shots (we had stopped to talk to a few other people for a while). I am sure it was very warm to the touch on the third shot.

Also you can reduce powder charges 10%

I started with 64, and then decided to move down to 62, for just that reason.

I use the same sissy pad when shooting it

I also find that it almost perfectly approximates the thickness of my outwear that I hunt in. I believe anything that helps duplicate your hunting situations is beneficial.

 

[DeerNut]

I believe anything that helps duplicate your hunting situations is beneficial.

Fair enough, I'm just a sissy!

 

[Anonymous]

The FIRST thing I would do it order some powder from Midsouth. Just swallow the $20.00 haz mat and order some. I'd at LEAST get some N-110 for 250grs and although I have had NO experience with it, some N-120 for 300grs. I KNOW your time is worth the $20.00 hat mat(but NO tax!). Order you 1000 primers while you are at it. You'll so thru them AND the price will never be better. Maybe you and a bud can spit the haz mat.

That really is the way to go-- obsessing over a hazmat fee is meaningless.

You'll get about 330 shots out of a bottle of N110-- the Wally World sells Triple 7 pellets for $36-- 50 two pellet shots.

The easy path is N110 for 250 gr. bullets or 5744, 5744 or N120 for 300 grainers. That's all I could ever want, much less need.

Having gone through N105, 2015, RL-7, 4759, 2400, etc., etc,-- the only other powder that has gotten me anywhere is 2015, and that really comes into its own for 350 - 375 gr. bullets.

If your gun is going to shoot, 5744 or N120 will do it-- N110 for 250 grainers. The rest is trivia in the field; at least I have found it so.

 

[jcchartboy]

Chuck...Randy.....250/110 or 300/120, any preferences?

I have both XTP's in the house already, I'll only be hunting deer this year, usually under 150yds.

Let me guess...both?!

 

[Anonymous]

I guess it is no secret that I prefer 300 gr. bullets, N120, and MMP sabots-- with Barnes MZ-Expanders or Barnes Original Spitzer Soft-Points.

For deer to 150 yards, I can't say it really matters.

 

[Nic_58]

Chuck...Randy.....250/110 or 300/120, any preferences?

I have a pretty good idea what Chuck's preference is according to some of his posts lately! :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I wish I could say that all my Reloder 7 groups were that good, but they haven't been. It really shoots lights out some days, and some days seems to have a mind of its own. I've shot it on and off for quite some time, but it is going to be "off mode" for the foreseeable.

N120 has been far, far, far more consistent-- it has never failed to group for me, regardless of the ambient conditions.

 

[DeerNut]

jcchartboy, does this look familiar?

 

[Anonymous]

Schoolmaster and DeerNut are right. Two in the same hole, the third off. That is classic barrel heating.

The best single group I've ever shot was with RL-7, an MMP HPH12, and a 300 gr. SST. But, just not repeatable.

I'd have to get out my temp gage to prove it, but I suspect the Reloder 7 range accuracy inconsistency I've had is due to one thing-- RL-7 burns hotter than N120.

 

[dwhunter]

The FIRST thing I would do it order some powder from Midsouth. Just swallow the $20.00 haz mat and order some. I'd at LEAST get some N-110 for 250grs and although I have had NO experience with it, some N-120 for 300grs. I KNOW your time is worth the $20.00 hat mat(but NO tax!). Order you 1000 primers while you are at it. You'll so thru them AND the price will never be better. Maybe you and a bud can spit the haz mat.

Good job on the powder scale. I have used that very Hornady scale for YEARS before I went to the Dillon. ALSO...VERY good buy on the rest! That is one good looking rest and bag! How do you like it?

Chuck is right! :wink:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/

 

[big6x6]

Chuck...Randy.....250/110 or 300/120, any preferences?

I just don't see the need for a 300gr bullet when shooting whitetail/antelope sized game. The 250gr gives you less recoil, is easier to seat, is less expensive, and has a flatter trajectory. The ONLY reason I would shoot a 300gr bullet would be if it were the most accurate. I'm easily in the N-110/250gr section.

 

[Anonymous]

I just don't see the need for a 300gr bullet when shooting whitetail/antelope sized game. The 250gr gives you less recoil, is easier to seat, is less expensive, and has a flatter trajectory.

Given the same velocity, the 300 gr. bullet is the flatter shooter when comparing bullet of identical styles, due to its higher BC-- and may have less wind drift at lower velocities.

There is no significant price difference, often the prices are identical.

The better sectional density of the 300 gr. bullets tend to blow through animals where 250's do not: important if you want a blood trail, shoot at longer ranges, take raking or double shoulder shots, the longer bullets have been proven to provide larger permanent wound cavities: and have generally greater wounding potential.

The longer bearing surface of the 300 grain bullets make them easier to seat without cocking or canting of the bullet.

The 1:24 rate of twist barrel and comparatively good muzzle velocity of the Savage allow it to stabilize 300 grain bullets where other rifles cannot, which is why "it was designed around" 300 gr. bullets.

In six 10ML-II's, 300 gr. area bullets have been more accurate: including 300SST's, 325 Buffalo SSB's, 287 Hunterman RBT spires, 300 gr. Barnes MZ-Expanders, and .458 Barnes originals-- both the FN and spitzer.

 

[dwhunter]

Reloader 7 is not even a Savage reccomended powder. Start with 5744,4759 & N110 those should get you where you need to be quickly.
With one these powders you should be able to find a load that will shoot under a inch easy. :wink:

 

[dwhunter]

The better sectional density of the 300 gr. bullets tend to blow through animals where 250's do not.

The 250's I shoot blow through. :huh?: