Savage Blow Up

[Head Hunter]

Hello guys,

I am new to this site but have been looking at it for some time while up here at Fort Belvoir in Virgina. I have a question to ask of all you experts:

I was all set to buy myself a smokeless Savage and then today, while searching the net I found an article on High Performance Muzzleloading that showed a Savage blow all to pieces. The article and accompanying warning to others was written by Toby Bridges. Apparently Toby is an expert in this field and was very fond of the Savage until the blow up. I think this happened last year and I am wondering if Savage has fixed the problem. According to Toby, Savage refused to acknowledge that there was a problem but the pictures he presented of high pressure gas damage over the course of a few hundred rounds pretty much convinced me that unless that rilfe has been modified, I should stay away. If you haven't seen the article you should read it. It was well written and quite alarming as I was under the impression that the Savage was flawless.

Can anyone shed any further light on this topic for me? I appreciate any info you can provide.

 

[Tar-12]

First off, Toby Bridges is full of crap, secondly he is far from being a expert in anything except B.S. Thirdly he was wanting to extort more monetary value from Savage. They refused, he threaten to destroy them.By what means?You have probally guessed that by now. The only friends the sorry dog has, is those who do not know him.As far as I know or anybody else knows, the only Sav. to "blow "up, was the one he had with the string tied to it! I think I have summed this up in a nut shell. Check out some old threads here or else where, you may come to a different conclusion, but doubtful. The fact is the Savage is one of the safest Smokeless Muzzleloaders out there period! Toby tried to destroy Savages good name,to those in the know, it did not work. I apologize for coming on so strong about this issue,but I get tired of people being mis-lead by this fool. Anybody got anything else to add?

 

[Head Hunter]

Blow UP

Tar-12,

Thanks for the reply. Is this an issue that has been brought up before - am I opening up an old wound here? It was the first I had heard of it.

 

[Tar-12]

Re: Blow UP

Tar-12,

Thanks for the reply. Is this an issue that has been brought up before - am I opening up an old wound here? It was the first I had heard of it.

It is a old wound, I apologize again, but stand by what I had to say.You are not the first to inquire about this guy,nor will you be the last, as long as he continues to spew uke: his B.S. I for one, am very tired of this guy.This is no fault of your own,I just lost it when I saw your post.There is a lot more to the story, but there is a general consensus about the real motive behind this guys"story". I am sure this post will generate some more info. for you!

 

[Ron S]

Head hunter,I have had two mishaps with my savage,both were my fault! The gun IS the STRONGEST Muzzel Loader Built in my opinion. The service is second to none! The gun has all the features you could ever ask for in a Muzzel Loader! Plus you have the option to use Smokless,or the BP Subsitute of your choice! That narrows the selection of (a gun that will do it all) down real fast! You won't be disapointed in the Savage! Ron S

 

[dwhunter]

First off, Toby Bridges is full of crap, secondly he is far from being a expert in anything except B.S. Thirdly he was wanting to extort more monetary value from Savage. They refused, he threaten to destroy them.By what means?You have probally guessed that by now. The only friends the sorry dog has, is those who do not know him.As far as I know or anybody else knows, the only Sav. to "blow "up, was the one he had with the string tied to it! I think I have summed this up in a nut shell. Check out some old threads here or else where, you may come to a different conclusion, but doubtful. The fact is the Savage is one of the safest Smokeless Muzzleloaders out there period! Toby tried to destroy Savages good name,to those in the know, it did not work. I apologize for coming on so strong about this issue,but I get tired of people being mis-lead by this fool. Anybody got anything else to add?

WOW! :shock: You go boy! :yeah: I think that pretty well sums it up in a nutshell.

 

[Rifleman]

I guess what solved the mystery for me some time ago was the very pictures Toby posted himself. If you look close you can see copper wash in the are of the barrel that is peeled back. Now think about that for a second....
Copper wash in barrel firing bullets encased in a sabot...hmmm. Sabots are made of plastic not copper...
Why is there copper wash on the barrel if the bullet does not touch?
But what if you loaded 2 xtp hollowpoints upside down? :shock:
Instant and massive expansion upon discharge, which would cause an instant barrel obstruction, thereby leaving copper wash on the barrel where it peeled back.
Just my theory but the only one I have heard so far that makes any sense to me.

 

[Anonymous]

I was all set to buy myself a smokeless Savage and then today, while searching the net I found an article on High Performance Muzzleloading that showed a Savage blow all to pieces. The article and accompanying warning to others was written by Toby Bridges. Apparently Toby is an expert in this field and was very fond of the Savage until the blow up.

It was nearly two years ago by now. He was VERY, VERY fond of the Savage until Savage Arms CEO Ron Coburn fired him, as did patent holder Henry Ball for an extensive variety of issues.

The 10ML-II is now in its 6th consecutive year of production, with no problems before or since. Many, many, many thousands of 10ML series muzzleloaders fire hundreds of thousands of shots annually. TOO MANY shoot out their RAMRODS (1360 grains by RCBS scale) along with their bullets, continually proving the generously overbuilt design of the Savage 10ML-II every year-- more like every month. Not too many people would try to shoot a cleaning rod out of a .30-06 or a 20 ga. shotgun, but the 10ML-II has tolerated that extreme level of abuse again and again and again.

I put well over 3500 rounds through one Savage, over an 18 month period. It went to Savage to be inspected from butt to muzzle-- it still passed all factory new barreled action tolerances. I had Savage rebarrel it anyway-- the used, loose barrel is right here. It appears just as new-- the internal barrel threads look like a tap was just removed from them, they are that pristine.

Problem is, things are not at all what he presents them to be-- like his dozens of imaginary "witnesses." They were invented just as his little problem was. Disgruntled ex-employee syndrome apparently is not unique. So, sure, Toby got mad at being canned, and did his best to try to get even. His little 12-step revenge management course just hasn't worked that well at all-- not as well as his charisma bypass, anyway. :cry:

A shame.

 

[FWF]

Thanks, all, for the background info. I, too, had run across TB's articles and was more than a little concerned as I had recently bought a 10MLII-BSS. For a variety of reasons those concerns gradually subsided from "hot news" to "old news"; now I think I can file them under "non-news".

The odd thing is, I found TB's site through a link on sav10ml.com. I don't understand why a pro-10ML site would carry a link to such a site.

 

[Grouse]

I don't understand why a pro-10ML site would carry a link to such a site.

Isnt that the truth.

 

[Tar-12]

Thank you Randy for explaining this issue in such a eloquent manner.I am a little harsh with words at times! :lol: Especially, when I was having visions of Toby, with a different kind of barrel obstruction dancing around my head ,while trying to explain his character. :wink:

 

[Grouse]

Thank you Randy for explaining this issue in such a eloquent manner.I am a little harsh with words at times! :lol: Especially, when I was having visions of Toby with a different kind of barrel obstruction dancing around my head ,while trying to explain his character. :wink:

It was a big waste of time on Toby's part. I believe sales increased during his temper tantrum. Old and boring subject now.

 

[dwhunter]

I guess what solved the mystery for me some time ago was the very pictures Toby posted himself. If you look close you can see copper wash in the are of the barrel that is peeled back. Now think about that for a second....
Copper wash in barrel firing bullets encased in a sabot...hmmm. Sabots are made of plastic not copper...
Why is there copper wash on the barrel if the bullet does not touch?
But what if you loaded 2 xtp hollowpoints upside down? :shock:
Instant and massive expansion upon discharge, which would cause an instant barrel obstruction, thereby leaving copper wash on the barrel where it peeled back.
Just my theory but the only one I have heard so far that makes any sense to me.

One thing that I noticed is the bulge is way out in front of the breech plug area which to me kills TB's theory that the unthreaded area became a extension of the combustion chamber where the gun let go. Your right about the copper it was very obvious in the photos. You don't get that from plastic sabots. The only thing I can't figure out is HOW LONG THE STRING WAS.

 

[RAF]

Head Hunter. Buy the Savage. You don't have a thing to worry about and will pleasantly surprised and pleased.

 

[Head Hunter]

Thanks

Thanks to all for the replies. I feel a lot more comfortable now. Of course, I just read last night on here that an Omega can obtain almost 2500 fps with the 200 grain SST - now that is very intriquing considering that my home state of Louisiana and close by cousin, Mississippi, do not allow smokeless. Something to think about while I am up here in Virginia.

Anybody smoked one with the 200 grain SST? If so, how did it perform in comparison to the 250 grain SST?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Thanks

now that is very intriquing considering that my home state of Louisiana and close by cousin, Mississippi, do not allow smokeless.

Smokeless is not mentioned as illegal by either-- Mississippi even allows smokeless CARTRIDGE single-shots in their "primitive" season. :?

 

[getonit]

head hunter- personally I would not be as concerned with the velocity as much as the accuracy and safety- the Savage can out perform the Omega by shooting smokeless but can also shoot the dirty stuff like the Omega-it's your choice if you want to limit yourself-- the deer you shoot isn't going to know the differance between a couple hundred feet per second anyway (though if speed is wanted the Savage can deliver!) -Getonit-

 

[sheephunterab]

but can also shoot the dirty stuff like the Omega

Not as well it can't!

 

[Anonymous]

Not as well it can't!

How many Savage 10ML-II's do you own and regularly shoot?

 

[sheephunterab]

More than you might think Randy