Savage Blow Up

[Grouse]

grouse . . . you are definitely onto something.

that's why i am taking on a new challenge this year and handicapping myself by purchasing a completely obsolete knight mk-85 that uses . . . gasp . . . #11 caps. i will don some buckskins to match the antique rifle.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[omega]

As long as your preloaders have pydrodex or t7 in them nobody knows what the "first" shot is. :lol:

So, if they can't prove what you shot, you never broke the law? Just as a personal ethics question, what if that first round killed a book deer. Would you still enter it in the record book even though it was illegally taken?
Just curious. :lol:

 

[sheephunterab]

As long as your preloaders have pydrodex or t7 in them nobody knows what the "first" shot is. :lol:

So, if they can't prove what you shot, you never broke the law? Just as a personal ethics question, what if that first round killed a book deer. Would you still enter it in the record book even though it was illegally taken?
Just curious. :lol:

No kidding...why not just shoot it with a centrefire and say you used a muzzleloader. Obviously following the law means nothing if that's your attitude!

 

[Anonymous]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing.

Pyrodex was sold for years as "smokeless muzzleloading propellant." Were they right then, or are they wrong now? You can pick one on that. :?

Triple 7 is a smokeless powder, according to the DOT and BATF. But if you are selling it, it is FAR more politically correct to say it isn't-- for marketing purposes.

No one can legislate morality, that's not the point. Legislation by marketing tactics is as unjust as it gets. It takes a huge leap to legislatively favor one type of smokeless powder over another-- and that is exactly the case when Triple 7 is in, and 5744 is out.

 

[omega]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing..

Hi Randy,
Just to clear all the debris out of your statement please answer yes or no to the question.
Yes, my personal ethics allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
or
No, my personal ethics donot allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
Thanks!

 

[sheephunterab]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing.

Pyrodex was sold for years as "smokeless muzzleloading propellant." Were they right then, or are they wrong now? You can pick one on that. :?

Triple 7 is a smokeless powder, according to the DOT and BATF. But if you are selling it, it is FAR more politically correct to say it isn't-- for marketing purposes.

No one can legislate morality, that's not the point. Legislation by marketing tactics is as unjust as it gets. It takes a huge leap to legislatively favor one type of smokeless powder over another-- and that is exactly the case when Triple 7 is in, and 5744 is out.

Randy...there are a lot of laws we don't agree with but that's why we work hard to change them. I personally would not break a hunting law but you are right, you can't legislate morality. I guess it's just more important to me than you. We all have a different set of morals!

 

[Anonymous]

I guess it's just more important to me than you. We all have a different set of morals!

MORE important to you than me? :shock: Why do you think I've worked so long in uncompensated form to change regs that make no sense? I'm far from alone-- many, many others have as well including those on this forum.

Off-topic, but on a happier note now that its all over with . . . it is a huge drag going to the hospital, particularly when your soon-to-be 78 years old father needed a new pacemaker. More than a drag, it sucks.

But, the operation went perfectly and Dad will be back in the hunting field very, very soon-- coming home this afternoon.

I'll call that the best Christmas present anyone can ask for. :applause:

 

[flatland hunter]

Glad everything went well... and here's to the next deer he bags :drinkers: I don't drink anything stronger than a Coke though...

 

[sheephunterab]

MORE important to you than me? Why do you think I've worked so long in uncompensated form to change regs that make no sense? I'm far from alone-- many, many others have as well including those on this forum.

Morals Randy...those are what are obviously more important to me. I never questioned the work you do or others on this board but I do question your disregard for game laws and for the importance of a fair chase statement. Nice attempt at turning things around though.

BTW...what is your answer to Omega's question?

Glad to hear your dad is doing well!

 

[RAF]

Randy, I'm glad your father is coming home. Unfortunetly, mine isn't. He passed away a month and a half ago. It leave a big hole in my life.
In his last couple of months I tried to spend as much time with him as I could. He encouraged me to go hunting. He'd phone my cell phone to see how I was making out and could wait for me to come home and fill him on all the detail. He marvelled at the number of deer I saw. He truly missed hunting these past few years. I hope you have many more hunting years with your father.

 

[d94jonca]

would this little trick not make a second shot impossible due to changed poi? do you guys actually do this?

 

[elkstalkr]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing..

Hi Randy,
Just to clear all the debris out of your statement please answer yes or no to the question.
Yes, my personal ethics allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
or
No, my personal ethics donot allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
Thanks!

With out doubt I will take some major flaming and heat for this.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people shooting smokeless powder in states where it is illegal. Sure it maybe the law, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it and it sure as hell doesn't mean I have to follow it. Granted if you get caught you better be willing to pay the fine without complaining.

This whole notion of its ok to shoot 777 but not smokeless is just plain crap. Granted, I live in a state where this is not an issue.

 

[d94jonca]

elkstalkr,

how would you feel about the guy hunting the lot next to you when he bags the monster buck you both have been hoping for with his 30-06 during primitive season?

lets for this hypthetical example say that the shot he took could have been accomplished with a ML as well - in the end he did not really gain any advantage by breaking the law.

(i really dont have much of an opinion on these questions - just curious.)

 

[dwhunter]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing..

Hi Randy,
Just to clear all the debris out of your statement please answer yes or no to the question.
Yes, my personal ethics allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
or
No, my personal ethics donot allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
Thanks!

With out doubt I will take some major flaming and heat for this.

I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people shooting smokeless powder in states where it is illegal. Sure it maybe the law, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it and it sure as hell doesn't mean I have to follow it. Granted if you get caught you better be willing to pay the fine without complaining.

This whole notion of its ok to shoot 777 but not smokeless is just plain crap. Granted, I live in a state where this is not an issue.

I agree! As long as it's a muzzleloader it don't matter what the propellant is.

 

[elkstalkr]

elkstalkr,

lets for this hypthetical example say that the shot he took could have been accomplished with a ML as well - in the end he did not really gain any advantage by breaking the law.

I think you just pointed out why I see nothing wrong with using smokeless in a state where its illegal. You gain NO real advantage, nor do you increase your odds of killing something by using a Savage/smokeless. The only real difference is the shooter doesn't have the same mess he has after shooting pyrodex/black powder/whatever substitute. Its only convient for the shooter, no extra threat to the deer/elk/whatever.

Ok, hi-power during ML season is wrong and I don't agree with it, because it does give you an unfair "advantage" and obviously increases your odds of killing something.

 

[d94jonca]

"I see nothing wrong with using smokeless ... gain NO real advantage, nor do you increase your odds of killing something by using a Savage/smokeless"

i guess that makes sense to me. now, would the approach of having one powder in the barrel and another in the speed loader not make subsequent shots hard given the poi change, or are they insignificant?

 

[sheephunterab]

This is hilarious you guys! You all go on and on about the advantages the Savage has over conventional muzzleloaders in regards to velocity and range and accuracy and now you're telling me it has no advantages over conventional muzzleloaders. Come on guys...what is it?

Gee I don't agree with the no hunting in National Parks laws...maybe I'll go shoot a new world record bighorn and elk this afternoon. Get a grip you guys. If you don't agree with a law work to change it.

I'm disgusted....I thought a lot more of everyone here. No wonder hunters have such bad reputations. There really are a lot of slobs out there.

 

[Anonymous]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing..

Hi Randy,
Just to clear all the debris out of your statement please answer yes or no to the question.
No, my personal ethics donot allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
Thanks!

The answer is "NO."

 

[sheephunterab]

It is hard to break a law that doesn't exist except in marketing..

Hi Randy,
Just to clear all the debris out of your statement please answer yes or no to the question.
No, my personal ethics donot allow me to break the law and register illegally take trophies in the record book.
Thanks!

The answer is "NO."

Hmmm...do I sense a double negative making a positive here? Being the word guy you are Randy, I just wanted to be certain.

 

[Anonymous]

This is hilarious you guys! You all go on and on about the advantages the Savage has over conventional muzzleloaders in regards to velocity and range and accuracy and now you're telling me it has no advantages over conventional muzzleloaders. Come on guys...what is it?

Why not try one and find out for yourself? Don't you really have any idea?

As far as what "good" or "bad" hunters might be to you-- it is moot. There are excellent handgun hunters, bowhunters, centerfire hunters, slug gun hunters, and on and on. And some, that likely do not meet your standards-- whatever that might be. The equipment you use does not change that at all.

The assumption apparently is that if you shoot smokeless, you automatically are going a kazillion miles an hour-- when published Knight rifle loads approach 2600 fps (one example), and have for some time.

There is also the assumption that ALL Savage 10ML-II shooters push the envelope, but no Knight or Thompson shooter does.

Baloney. I know too many Knight and T/C shooters burning 200 grains of Pyrodex or Triple 7-- and have for a long time. Those who want to go that route do-- regardless of the equipment they have. It is all in how you use it, and mere ownership of any firearm does not automatically mean it will be used a certain way, an ethical way, or what some may deem a sporting way. Same for bows, same for most anything.

Everyone "knows" that an Encore muzzleloader is like a 7mm Remington Magnum centerfire-- Thompson wouldn't intentionally mislead people with their ad-copy now, would they?
:shock: