Smokeless for newbies

[IronSights]

Is smokeless something that newbies to muzzleloading should steer clear of?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Not at all. Just different ways to put out yer eye if you don't pay attention

 

[ElDiablo]

Depends on how careful and detail-oriented you are.

 

[Shorty]

Tell us your background in firearms first. Be honest, is where it all starts.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Always use a witness mark. Place a LOADED placard on your loaded muzzleloader if it remains loaded for an extended amount of time. Check to make sure your muzzleloader is unloaded before you load it. Know your loads and do not experiment with different loads unless your are absolutely sure you know what you are doing. These are a few I do every time.

Smokeless muzzleloaders are quite safe and very enjoyable if you follow a few safety precautions. Many of the accidents I read about are from double loading for various reasons,

 

[ENCORE50A]

Its not if............. but when. If you're fortunate, you catch the issue before it turns into a mess. SAFETY is #1 and it CAN NOT be ignored.

I've been hunting with muzzleloaders for 50yrs and up until a couple years back, I had never dry balled. Then it happened.

In the same amount of time, I never double loaded. Then it happened.

Witness marks are mandatory and not optional. Following strict SAFETY procedures is a requirement.

NEVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DISTRACTED WHILE LOADING.

 

[mwwoodman]

I know of two guys to blow up their 45 cal Patriot muzzleloaders. Both were shooting BH209.
Smokeless is only dangerous when you don't follow the rules. The only difference is maybe the explosion is a bit more powerful. One guy who double loaded required major, I mean major surgery to his hand. The other had about 100 wood splinters embedded in his forearm but no surgery luckily.

 

[edmehlig]

When I insert my ramrod to an unloaded ML they are flush with the muzzle. If they are extended to my notch on my ramrod they are loaded. If the notch is higher than flush with the muzzle, then you or someone screwed up and put in a second load and you need to stop and remove the load/loads to see what is wrong.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Smokeless rifles if possible are best shot in a place where it's only you, or there is as little distraction as possible, and by distractions I'm mean conversations with anyone, total focus needs to be on what is going on,, I really feel like it's the same for all muzzle loading as Mr Woodman mentioned even with black horn or a sub powder your enemies primarily are distraction and lack of focus when a mistake is made smokeless though it certainly is much more to deal with, I am a fanatic smokeless shooter but I've been in places where I can shoot very focused and 99% of the time by myself if I didn't have that environment and I had to shoot in a social environment at a range Etc I would be nervous and that's just me I guess as you read smokeless Shooters comments and warnings some would ask well why would I even do something like that then a simple answer for me accuracy on top of accuracy and very safe I believe as long as I stay very responsible

 

[Ninering62]

Is smokeless something that newbies to muzzleloading should steer clear of?

Theres always the exception, some ppl can take on anything & do just fine. Most can not. And since we are talking about things that go BOOM here, I absolutely do not recommend tryig to run before you even learn how to crawl. I like using this as an example, especially on this very subject; would you get a 16yr old kid thats never even sat behind the wheel, an 800HP car that goes 200mph as their first car? If you wouldn't, apply that exact same reasoning to getting the equivalent in something that uses explosives & bullets. Just my .2c
Make all the rookie mistakes that most of us have made when we were novices & learn from them with components that will most likely not end up blowing off body parts or killing you or someone next to you first bc those mistakes & the whole NOT KNOWING anything about anything except for what info strangers on the internet gave you, when you do screw up in any of the many ways that one can with this, it WILL NOT end like it did with reg BP or BP subs & off the shelf muzzleloaders. If you're the type to ask on the internet what bullets & loads everyone is using while you put zero effort into going & finding & learning for yourself, then blindly just using that, without putting any effort into learning the first thing about what you were told to use, stay far far away from smokeless muzzleloading. If you're nothing like that type, you may be just fine & stay safe with your gun & limbs in tact.

 

[alternate]

#1 rule. WITNESS MARK ON YOUR RAMROD.
The three scenarios that cause nearly all of the accidents are;
1. Cease fire at the range while you're in the middle of loading.
2. Chatting with some one at the range while you're loading.
3. Putting the gun away loaded and forgetting when the gun is used next time.
A witness mark on the ramrod is the cure for all three.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

We are all free to make our own decision in this country(for now). So i wouldnt tell some one not to do a thing, but would offer my help if they want it. That said, the gene pool needs all the help it can get, clearing out the shallow end. The bonus is that sometimes it makes for good youtube videos.

 

[Ninering62]

We are all free to make our own decision in this country(for now). So i wouldnt tell some one not to do a thing, but would offer my help if they want it. That said, the gene pool needs all the help it can get, clearing out the shallow end. The bonus is that sometimes it makes for good youtube videos.

Well said, and I couldn’t agree more.

 

[davidsally1330]

Im new to this site and find your discussions very interesting. I taught hunter ed in our state as a volunteer. I spent most of my time on the Black Powder range teaching both patch and round ball as well as pellets and sabots. I enjoyed moving on to smokeless with my Savage 10ML II. I could not agree more with previous posts about staying focused while going through the loading process with whatever your stuffing down the barrel. Attention to detail is the only way to avert a disaster. Hopefully discussions like these will help those inclined to take up this sporting activity safely.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

The ultimate freedom is the freedom to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the consequences of a foul-up with a smokeless muzzle loader can be pretty darn severe...

I would skip it and forget it until you know more about what you are doing. Instead, I would recommend getting set up to reload for a rifle round or two on a single stage press. You'll start learning the concepts, and quickly become aware as to how less than a single grain (weight not piece/flake, so 0.06479891 grams) can take you from safe standard pressure levels to "kaboom" territory. Or seating the bullet just a bit deeper in the case, etc. As a bonus reloading is extremely well documented, with clearly defined boundaries for safety.

Once you have a true understanding of powder and burn rates and what happens when the working volume changes, etc. try going off the books and do really light bullet for caliber (or extremely heavy) and subsonics, super light bullets and super high velocities, etc. When you are comfortable with all of that, and still feel the need for a smokeless ML, well, jump in!

 

[davidsally1330]

You have said it all. If you at all interested in building loads that make your muzzleloader perform at its peak, spend the time to read and educate yourself before experimenting. This is not like black powder or Pyrodex. A minor mis measure will usually only mess up your accuracy. This is supposed to be fun not dangerous. God knows there is enough information out there to be safe and have fun. Start with the OEM and their recommendations and be careful about what you read on the internet. Reputable references only. I like your reloading recommendations.

 

[IronSights]

Tell us your background in firearms first. Be honest, is where it all starts.

I have owned firearms since I was 9 years old (59 today), but I have never delved into reloading or pursued a deeper knowledge of ballistics other than what is printed on the box of ammo from the manufacturer

 

[Shorty]

Hello IronSights, i see your not a virgin on the firearm front. This is the best advice i can give you. Others will chime in and do the same. We all want safety as our number one priority, that is where the witness mark on the ramrod comes in. I would go to the woodman arms web-site and read everything on it. Then i would really think about getting the .45 cal that he has to offer. This gun is capable of shooting light smokeless loads, with specific powders, bullets, and sabots that Mark has listed. This gun is extremely accurate and very light to carry, a lot of our members here on this forum have one or more of them. You will not be sorry, the only bad thing is the lead time to get one can be lengthy. Check out our past posts about them, i could not be happier with mine. Woodman arms cares about the quality of their arms, top notch, and the people they serve. A very rare quality these days. Good luck, shoot straight, and keep your powder dry…

 

[Shorty]

P.S. Happy birthday!!!!

 

[IronSights]

Hello IronSights, i see your not a virgin on the firearm front. This is the best advice i can give you. Others will chime in and do the same. We all want safety as our number one priority, that is where the witness mark on the ramrod comes in. I would go to the woodman arms web-site and read everything on it. Then i would really think about getting the .45 cal that he has to offer. This gun is capable of shooting light smokeless loads, with specific powders, bullets, and sabots that Mark has listed. This gun is extremely accurate and very light to carry, a lot of our members here on this forum have one or more of them. You will not be sorry, the only bad thing is the lead time to get one can be lengthy. Check out our past posts about them, i could not be happier with mine. Woodman arms cares about the quality of their arms, top notch, and the people they serve. A very rare quality these days. Good luck, shoot straight, and keep your powder dry…

Thanks for the birthday wishes and the great info. I’m starting to think my best introduction to muzzleloader use might be the Firestick route. Start with something more out-of-the-box so to speak than loose powder