Smokeless for newbies

[anonymouscowherd]

Thanks for the birthday wishes and the great info. I’m starting to think my best introduction to muzzleloader use might be the Firestick route. Start with something more out-of-the-box so to speak than loose powder

What I would do (and did) to get into Muzzleloading....
Hit your local pawn shops, etc. and find an inexpensive percussion or in-line rifle. Acquire supplies, and shoot real black or Pyrodex or T7 (I prefer real black, less corrosion and not really any more cleaning needed), and learn.

My .54 percussion was tagged at $125 and I paid $100 OTD. Could've gotten a .50 inline for the same price, but I wanted percussion. I see deals like this with just about every pawn shop circuit run I do every few months (cheaper and better than gunshows). Powder, caps, and all teh doo-dads and such needed set me back $100 or so total, and that gave me enough to shoot several hundred rounds.

 

[birdog]

If you are dead set on a SML ML then there is nothing wrong with putting a smokeless together and starting off with black powder. Like Luke say's, "The best smokeless guns make the best BH209 guns!".

Disregard if money is an issue although those CVA Scout 45/70 conversions aren't too terribly expensive.

 

[IronSights]

What I would do (and did) to get into Muzzleloading....
Hit your local pawn shops, etc. and find an inexpensive percussion or in-line rifle. Acquire supplies, and shoot real black or Pyrodex or T7 (I prefer real black, less corrosion and not really any more cleaning needed), and learn.

My .54 percussion was tagged at $125 and I paid $100 OTD. Could've gotten a .50 inline for the same price, but I wanted percussion. I see deals like this with just about every pawn shop circuit run I do every few months (cheaper and better than gunshows). Powder, caps, and all teh doo-dads and such needed set me back $100 or so total, and that gave me enough to shoot several hundred rounds.

Thanks for the recommendations. I forget about pawn shops as an option. Great advice

 

[IronSights]

If you are dead set on a SML ML then there is nothing wrong with putting a smokeless together and starting off with black powder. Like Luke say's, "The best smokeless guns make the best BH209 guns!".

Disregard if money is an issue although those CVA Scout 45/70 conversions aren't too terribly expensive.

Thanks for the additional insight. Seems I need to keep researching and asking questions. Can’t overstate how much I appreciate everyone’s input

 

[Ninering62]

Thanks for the birthday wishes and the great info. I’m starting to think my best introduction to muzzleloader use might be the Firestick route. Start with something more out-of-the-box so to speak than loose powder

Well, I went to edit my post bc I type like an old sausage fingered redneck & type-o's ARE the norm & I clicked on a part to edit & my screen does abit of the Hoky Poky & everything & wrote was gone. Not sure how that happened, but I don't feel like re writing it all again. Sorry about that.

 

[Brewcrew]

Thanks for the birthday wishes and the great info. I’m starting to think my best introduction to muzzleloader use might be the Firestick route. Start with something more out-of-the-box so to speak than loose powder

Hey IronSights, I have a smokeless and bought the firestick too! Traditions NitroFire because it is safe, simple and waterproof! Did I mention fun to shoot? This thing is a blast. My most accurate load is the Orange 100grain firestick with Winchester 209 primer and the 250 grain Aerolite bullet. Great combo for deer and accurate in my rifle. It's really nice not wasting a shot at the end of the day to clear out the rifle. Just take out the Orange firestick and use it the next day.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Well, I went to edit my post bc I type like an old sausage fingered redneck & type-o's ARE the norm & I clicked on a part to edit & my screen does abit of the Hoky Poky & everything & wrote was gone. Not sure how that happened, but I don't feel like re writing it all again. Sorry about that.

It disappeared for you but, it made it out into email notifications. If you want it, I can post it for you. I haven't deleted the email as yet.

 

[Harley469]

I have shot traditional and inline ML's for years. In my opinion, smokeless is the easiest of all. They are "generally" going to be more accurate, capable of shooting at longer distances, easier to load, and most definitely less cleaning involved. If you are really set on spending some money (varies greatly) on a top notch smokeless build contact any number of us here on the forums and we will point you in the right direction.

 

[IronSights]

Theres always the exception, some ppl can take on anything & do just fine. Most can not. And since we are talking about things that go BOOM here, I absolutely do not recommend tryig to run before you even learn how to crawl. I like using this as an example, especially on this very subject; would you get a 16yr old kid thats never even sat behind the wheel, an 800HP car that goes 200mph as their first car? If you wouldn't, apply that exact same reasoning to getting the equivalent in something that uses explosives & bullets. Just my .2c
Make all the rookie mistakes that most of us have made when we were novices & learn from them with components that will most likely not end up blowing off body parts or killing you or someone next to you first bc those mistakes & the whole NOT KNOWING anything about anything except for what info strangers on the internet gave you, when you do screw up in any of the many ways that one can with this, it WILL NOT end like it did with reg BP or BP subs & off the shelf muzzleloaders. If you're the type to ask on the internet what bullets & loads everyone is using while you put zero effort into going & finding & learning for yourself, then blindly just using that, without putting any effort into learning the first thing about what you were told to use, stay far far away from smokeless muzzleloading. If you're nothing like that type, you may be just fine & stay safe with your gun & limbs in tact.

I’m definitely someone that likes to start with fundamentals when learning something new. I don’t like spending a bunch of money either when I don’t know if I will even enjoy it. So with all the great info and advice, I think I really want to lean on the Firestick route, that is if it is technology that will stick around for a few years

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I’m definitely someone that likes to start with fundamentals when learning something new. I don’t like spending a bunch of money either when I don’t know if I will even enjoy it. So with all the great info and advice, I think I really want to lean on the Firestick route, that is if it is technology that will stick around for a few years

TBH I would skip the firestick thing and just get a decent 209 fired rifle

The firestick is proprietary and non-reloadable so if the parent company decides to stop making them for any reason or if there is a supply crunch and some other product takes precedence you are SOL

At least the Remington 5mm rimfire rifles can be converted to a few different centerfire cartridges ....

 

[ElDiablo]

I’m definitely someone that likes to start with fundamentals when learning something new. I don’t like spending a bunch of money either when I don’t know if I will even enjoy it. So with all the great info and advice, I think I really want to lean on the Firestick route, that is if it is technology that will stick around for a few years

There may be an element of simplicity to the Firestick system but, IMO, that’s where the advantages end. You’re limited to using Federal’s powder sticks of 100 or 120 grains (so even fewer options for tweaking the charge than with pellets) and each powder charge is gonna cost you about $2.70. Not to mention, the system isn’t legal currently in about half of the country.

https://www.guns.com/news/2021/02/2...to-know-about-the-new-nitrofire-and-firestick

 

[Ninering62]

There may be an element of simplicity to the Firestick system but, IMO, that’s where the advantages end. You’re limited to using Federal’s powder sticks of 100 or 120 grains (so even fewer options for tweaking the charge than with pellets) and each powder charge is gonna cost you about $2.70. Not to mention, the system isn’t legal currently in about half of the country.

https://www.guns.com/news/2021/02/2...to-know-about-the-new-nitrofire-and-firestick

I'm glad you wrote that bro, bc after the " I'm just gonna learn the firestick way " that told me everything I needed to hear to not say anymore. To each his own, hope he finds something to work for him.

 

[IronSights]

TBH I would skip the firestick thing and just get a decent 209 fired rifle

The firestick is proprietary and non-reloadable so if the parent company decides to stop making them for any reason or if there is a supply crunch and some other product takes precedence you are SOL

At least the Remington 5mm rimfire rifles can be converted to a few different centerfire cartridges ....

Very true that Federal could up and quit making the Firestick

 

[IronSights]

I'm glad you wrote that bro, bc after the " I'm just gonna learn the firestick way " that told me everything I needed to hear to not say anymore. To each his own, hope he finds something to work for him.

Understand that I have no experience with any loose powder and I definitely don’t have the time that I believe would be necessary for experimenting with such. I am looking for a reliable, affordable muzzleloader setup to harvest a deer once a year. With the help of this forum and other research, I simply don’t think the smokeless route is in my best interest right now is all.

 

[ElDiablo]

As a wise man recently said, “Smokeless is college level and Firesticks are kindergarten.” There’s a lot of middle ground between the two.

 

[Ninering62]

Understand that I have no experience with any loose powder and I definitely don’t have the time that I believe would be necessary for experimenting with such. I am looking for a reliable, affordable muzzleloader setup to harvest a deer once a year. With the help of this forum and other research, I simply don’t think the smokeless route is in my best interest right now is all.

I would not argue with you there. I hope you find something to work for you & enjoy it.

 

[IronSights]

As a wise man recently said, “Smokeless is college level and Firesticks are kindergarten.” There’s a lot of middle ground between the two.

Then I feel even better about traveling the Firestick or pellet path as my introduction to muzzleloader hunting. You don’t have to agree with me, I am okay with that. I came to the forum for information and insight, which has been great. And I am pretty sure that the majority of smokeless shooters here did not just out of the blue start their ML journey shooting smokeless. ML itself has been an evolving technology for decades. So I say “thanks” to all that have contributed to the conversation

 

[IronSights]

Im new to this site and find your discussions very interesting. I taught hunter ed in our state as a volunteer. I spent most of my time on the Black Powder range teaching both patch and round ball as well as pellets and sabots. I enjoyed moving on to smokeless with my Savage 10ML II. I could not agree more with previous posts about staying focused while going through the loading process with whatever your stuffing down the barrel. Attention to detail is the only way to avert a disaster. Hopefully discussions like these will help those inclined to take up this sporting activity safely.

There was a Savage 10ML II at a recent auction that started me learning about smokeless ML. That’s why I wanted and needed to learn more before just committing to smokeless

 

[IronSights]

The ultimate freedom is the freedom to accept the consequences. Unfortunately, the consequences of a foul-up with a smokeless muzzle loader can be pretty darn severe...

I would skip it and forget it until you know more about what you are doing. Instead, I would recommend getting set up to reload for a rifle round or two on a single stage press. You'll start learning the concepts, and quickly become aware as to how less than a single grain (weight not piece/flake, so 0.06479891 grams) can take you from safe standard pressure levels to "kaboom" territory. Or seating the bullet just a bit deeper in the case, etc. As a bonus reloading is extremely well documented, with clearly defined boundaries for safety.

Once you have a true understanding of powder and burn rates and what happens when the working volume changes, etc. try going off the books and do really light bullet for caliber (or extremely heavy) and subsonics, super light bullets and super high velocities, etc. When you are comfortable with all of that, and still feel the need for a smokeless ML, well, jump in!

Great response
That is exactly the jest of I am taking away from this thread. Knowledge of reloading is a plus. And that is currently something not in my near future. So a more controlled/proven system is in my best interests

 

[Brewcrew]

As a wise man recently said, “Smokeless is college level and Firesticks are kindergarten.” There’s a lot of middle ground between the two.

I thought this site was called Modern Muzzleloader? That's why I joined up. Wondering now if I donated money to the wrong site. There seems to be a lot of modern muzzleloader haters on this site.