Smokeless Omega question

[SuperKirby]

I have a few questions for you guys that have smokeless Omega conversions.

First, what’s your setup and what are the specs for length and weight?

Second, what are max loads? I assume they should be comparable to encore max loads? I think the smokeless encore was around 63 or 65 gr. of 4198.

What do you consider a reasonable max hunting range? More or less than 300 yards?

Anything you don’t like about your setup? Anything you would do differently if you were ordering a new barrel?

Thanks for your help.

 

[ElDiablo]

Max load is also dependent on bullet. Woodman recommends a max of 40k on the OEM 1” shank and 45k on the 1.1”. I have both.

McGowen 24”, 1” shank, 1-18” twist with a light scope on a factory synth stock is 7 lbs.

Brux 26”, 1.1” shank, 1-20 twist on a Boyd’s Pro Varmint with a big SWFA scope is 41.5” long with brake and just about 11 lbs.

A factory Omega is a 300 yard rifle with the right loads. I think these are solid 500 yard rifles depending on your bullet choice and the game you’re hunting.

I love both. If I were going to just order one it would be a Woodman McGowen 1” shank, 18 twist, 26” length, threaded for a brake.

You can’t go wrong with either. Both are a big step up from OEM.

 

[SuperKirby]

Can I ask why the McGowen? It’s my understanding that the Brux is the better barrel? Or is the McGowan the only way to get the 1-18 twist? Woodman did say he would recommend a cut rifling barrel for sabotless. Is the Mcgowen cut or button?

I think if I did it I’d want to do a 24” threaded for a brake for bench work and a thread cap for deer work. I agree the 1-18 twist would probably make the most sense.

 

[ElDiablo]

Yeah, both are great barrels. The McGowen is button-rifled. So far, my McGowen shoots better and shoots everything I put in it very well. And it’s less expensive. I think the 18 twist is only available from Mark in the McGowen (I could be wrong about that).

If you’re going to shoot predominantly full-bore the Brux is probably a better choice (theoretically anyway). Mine has a nice consistent bore. For hunting I like saboted bullets better though.

If you could get a Brux in 18 twist, that would be a great choice. I’d still go 26” - the 24” is quite short and if you’re shooting long range why not have a couple extra inches?

 

[Mnt monkey]

My 18 twist McGowan shoots everything!!!,,first McGowan for me ,, it will not be the last. Mine shoots plastic loads so well I really can't see sizing bullets for it. I'll try to weigh mine tomorrow and post.

 

[alternate]

I built two SML's. One on a Savage action and the other an H&R stub job. The Savage has a 458 x 18 twist barrel and shoots moa out to 200 yds. (the furthest I can shoot around here). The H & R uses a 458 x 22 twist barrel and shoots 2 moa out to 200 yds. Both barrels are 4140 McGowans. If I had it to do over again they would BOTH be 1 in 18 twist.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I will never have another Muzzleloader 45 Cal if I can choose that will not be 18 twists, I am shooting a 16 twist and I have shot a 14 twist a lot, the 16 is showing a lot of promise, the 14 was a Blackhorn dedicated rifle in an ultralight weight rifle. You can't go much faster than 18 and shoot plastic you'll start to struggle . The 18 is hands down the most versatile twist in a 45 Cal muzzleloader I remember reading an article I think it was by a man named Cecil something out of Canada and forgive me if I don't remember his name right but he went on and on on his web page about the 28 twist 45 Cal being the ultimate twist that anything faster would just not work perhaps at the time he wrote that there wasn't enough bullets around to try that twist out and prove that all I know is it is the absolute last twist that I would want in a 45 Cal Barrel it would be 20 or faster or I wouldn't have any use for it I've come to this staunch conclusion from shooting smokeless and Blackhorn not from shooting any of the other black subs or real black powder or big lead bullets only jacketed bullets, I cannot comment on the right twist for big lead and black powder however if I look back in the history of things it seems like a lot of those long distance black powder Shooters are shooting the 18 imagine that

 

[Outdoornut1]

I have Brux 1-18 twist 1.10 barrel ordered from Mark. So yes you can get that option. I have an Arrowhead 1-20 twist encore. We will see which shoots better for me.

 

[alternate]

I will never have another Muzzleloader 45 Cal if I can choose that will not be 18 twists, I am shooting a 16 twist and I have shot a 14 twist a lot, the 16 is showing a lot of promise, the 14 was a Blackhorn dedicated rifle in an ultralight weight rifle. You can't go much faster than 18 and shoot plastic you'll start to struggle . The 18 is hands down the most versatile twist in a 45 Cal muzzleloader I remember reading an article I think it was by a man named Cecil something out of Canada and forgive me if I don't remember his name right but he went on and on on his web page about the 28 twist 45 Cal being the ultimate twist that anything faster would just not work perhaps at the time he wrote that there wasn't enough bullets around to try that twist out and prove that all I know is it is the absolute last twist that I would want in a 45 Cal Barrel it would be 20 or faster or I wouldn't have any use for it I've come to this staunch conclusion from shooting smokeless and Blackhorn not from shooting any of the other black subs or real black powder or big lead bullets only jacketed bullets, I cannot comment on the right twist for big lead and black powder however if I look back in the history of things it seems like a lot of those long distance black powder Shooters are shooting the 18 imagine that

The proper twist is driven by the length of the bullet. If you're gonna shoot full bore 458's you can use a 28 twist but If you use sabots with 40 caliber slugs 18 twist would be better. This is because grain for grain a 40 is considerably longer than a 45 and requires fast twist.

 

[Mnt monkey]

The 18 twist barrels that I have will shoot jacketed bullets in the range from 250 grains to 400 grains all less than a quarter inch there's no way a 28 twist Barrel will do that ,again I don't shoot big lead maybe it will do that with big lead or with 458 big lead bullets but I don't believe for a minute it will shoot quarter of an inch with the assortment of jacketed bullets that my 18 twist will can you shoot those in a 28 twist well sure ,,can you shoot them within a quarter minute in a 28 twist bullets from 250 to 400 grains jacketed bullet size to bore I would be surprised.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I've become a believer in this and I already knew it anyway fast twist will handle light,, slow twist will not handle heavy,, I understand that you can adjust velocity somewhat to negate some of that, I must confess I have not measured a bullet in relation to Barrel twist any in the last five to seven years and I have for the most ignored what a lot of people told me would work and would not work I have experimented a lot with different twists and continue to I'm still learning my persistence with the 18 and my staunch stance with it, being the sweet spot is from shooting thousands of bullets in in the last 7 years and I mean thousands. My analysis is based on pulling the trigger and measuring groups I avoid the science and the technical numbers as much as I can ,again that's just me and my own approach, i test what the 18 twist rifle can do by shooting everything I can light and the heaviest bullets I can too. None of the other twists I've shot have had the versatility of the 18 again I'm talking quarter a minute groups

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The 18 is hands down the most versatile twist in a 45 Cal muzzleloader I remember reading an article I think it was by a man named Cecil something out of Canada and forgive me if I don't remember his name right but he went on and on on his web page about the 28 twist 45 Cal being the ultimate twist that anything faster would just not work

Cecil Epps @ PRbullet.com
Pretty controversial guy, no doubt about it.

 

[MeatMachine]

I think when Cecil Epps wrote that article the sabots weren’t as good as they are today.

 

[Hatchet Jack]

I could not get sabots to hold up in my SML using 4198 powder. It forced me to get a sizing die and go full bore. My barrel is a 1-20'' Brux /Encore Barrel.

 

[billyboy*]

Second, what are max loads? I assume they should be comparable to encore max loads? I think the smokeless encore was around 63 or 65 gr. of 4198.

Jeff Fisk says 60 Grs of H4198 with 275 Gr bullets should be Max. The TC Encore is Designed for Centerfire Pressures & the TC Omega is Not. Please be Careful.

 

[Outdoornut1]

Jeff Fisk says 60 Grs of H4198 with 275 Gr bullets should be Max. The TC Encore is Designed for Centerfire Pressures & the TC Omega is Not. Please be Careful.

Maybe that's why Mark is working on a beafed up action(someone posted).
I am curious as to whether Jeff is referring to his Omega build as opposed to a larger barrel like the 1.10 I have ordered from Woodsman.

 

[Mnt monkey]

Rifles like the 45 70 CVA conversion, the Omega ,The Encore, patriot and other custom guns that are lighter weight and have lighter weight tapered barrels that shoot smokeless loads to me should never be approached trying to get as much velocity as possible if you're going to do that just stick with the heavy barrel the number 17 ,,, I personally agree with Jeff Fisk load advice I would never shoot over 60 grains with a 275 and I would stick to the 275s and the 250s and most of these rifles I know they'll shoot the 300 grains and heavier bullets to me you real quickly get them out of their practical purpose these rifles make excellent hunting guns in their very accurate and a very safe keep your loads in the mild to medium range most of these lighter white 45 Cals are excellent with a 40 cal such as a fury 225 in a light blue you stay below 57 grains of 4198 and that Sabbath will hold up well and you'll have all the velocity you need to go out to 300 yards maybe more I shoot that load a lot out to 400 and I can put it on my palm all day long,,,I guess it's nice to know your limits with pressure and loads for a gun,,, I just sure hope people stay on the mild to medium side with these guns pushing velocity in these rifles and causing an accident will be a bad influence on muzzle loading. Chase accuracy with these lighter rifles and you will be happy, work with these velocity that you establish, figure out your range with it and hunt.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Rifles like the 45 70 CVA conversion, the Omega ,The Encore, patriot and other custom guns that are lighter weight and have lighter weight tapered barrels that shoot smokeless loads to me should never be approached trying to get as much velocity as possible if you're going to do that just stick with the heavy barrel the number 17 ,,, I personally agree with Jeff Fisk load advice I would never shoot over 60 grains with a 275 and I would stick to the 275s and the 250s and most of these rifles I know they'll shoot the 300 grains and heavier bullets to me you real quickly get them out of their practical purpose these rifles make excellent hunting guns in their very accurate and a very safe keep your loads in the mild to medium range most of these lighter white 45 Cals are excellent with a 40 cal such as a fury 225 in a light blue you stay below 57 grains of 4198 and that Sabbath will hold up well and you'll have all the velocity you need to go out to 300 yards maybe more I shoot that load a lot out to 400 and I can put it on my palm all day long,,,I guess it's nice to know your limits with pressure and loads for a gun,,, I just sure hope people stay on the mild to medium side with these guns pushing velocity in these rifles and causing an accident will be a bad influence on muzzle loading. Chase accuracy with these lighter rifles and you will be happy, work with these velocity that you establish, figure out your range with it and hunt.

I will be super happy with a 300 range. Even 200 is plenty.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I could not get sabots to hold up in my SML using 4198 powder. It forced me to get a sizing die and go full bore. My barrel is a 1-20'' Brux /Encore Barrel.

I had the same problem with sabots and IMR4198. I went to H4895, which is a slower powder.

 

[brownisdown]

Would putting a wad of some sort under the sabot help the situation any?