Some Difficulty Getting My Savage ML II to Group Well

[Harley469]

Not sure anyone mentioned this, is your Front Sight Base touching the Recoil Lug?
Also some of the SS barreled 10ML-IIs were extremely rough. Might want to Polish it with Ultra Fine “White” Scotchbrite.
Hopefully you have ruled out the scope

I did read about this issue- I would assume this isn't it since my groups were good when I was shooting in the fall, before hunting season started. I am really guessing my problems have to do with a loose breech plug/vent liner. After that, I am thinking scope. We will see.

 

[SupplySgt65]

I only used a small amount of Permatex anti-seize with the factory breech plug and vent liner. I never had an issue with either coming loose from shooting or being difficult to remove afterwards. I only removed the breech plug/ vent liner for cleaning after every 100 shots. My pet load was 43gr AA 5744, 300gr XTP, MMP Savage recommended black sabot, with CCI 209M primer. It is the only muzzleloader I've owned that never let me down in the field and I regret ever selling it.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

After that, I am thinking scope. We will see.

A set of "See Thru" rings will allow you to co-witness iron sights with the scope. Some people do not like this set up. However, it works well for making sure you have a good scope, especially if you also put a level on the scope.

Leupold Rifleman Rings See-Thru Cross Slot Base 1" High Black Gloss Model# 57395 30317573959 | eBay

Hunting Alloy Bubble Spirit Level for Rifle Scope Laser with 30mm to 1" Reducer | eBay

 

[jims]

Hopefully that was the problem as it would be an easy fix.

 

[ttrailz]

This is the only lube I use for vent liners breech plugs & choke tubes . TW25B. It is manufactured by Mil-Comm. A little dab will do the job. Never had anything back out or any misfires . After applying I always pop off a couple primers just for insurance . The member that suggested looking at the front scope base gave a factual suggestion . I had this issue as well . The front base was touching the irregular portion of the recoil lug . I mean by just a frogs hair . I took the base off & ground off a recess for clearance . It improved accuracy tremendously .Also just a suggestion. I sent my 2 10Ml2 to Corey James at B.A.W.S for new stocks a third pillar & a greatly improved ignition system . Check out his information . If you hunt with a Savage you owe it to yourself to rule out the defects causing any issues . An accurate well performing firearm ads total enjoyment to hunting & shooting .

 

[Harley469]

Maybe I am putting "too much" anti-seize on the plug and vent liner. I am 99% certain my issues are centered around one/both loosening up. After cleaning the gun last weekend I tightened both exceptionally well. I will report back after shooting a group (won't be until at least Thursday afternoon, probably Saturday).

 

[jims]

Keep us posted.

 

[Harley469]

This is the only lube I use for vent liners breech plugs & choke tubes . TW25B. It is manufactured by Mil-Comm. A little dab will do the job. Never had anything back out or any misfires . After applying I always pop off a couple primers just for insurance . The member that suggested looking at the front scope base gave a factual suggestion . I had this issue as well . The front base was touching the irregular portion of the recoil lug . I mean by just a frogs hair . I took the base off & ground off a recess for clearance . It improved accuracy tremendously .Also just a suggestion. I sent my 2 10Ml2 to Corey James at B.A.W.S for new stocks a third pillar & a greatly improved ignition system . Check out his information . If you hunt with a Savage you owe it to yourself to rule out the defects causing any issues . An accurate well performing firearm ads total enjoyment to hunting & shooting .

I checked out Bayou Advanced Weapon Systems- wow!! That very well may be a route I take if I don't get the results I'm looking for. I'm looking to get those groups back to where I had them prior to deer season, 1 inch at 100yrds. That's good enough for the deer I shoot.

 

[ttrailz]

A set of "See Thru" rings will allow you to co-witness iron sights with the scope. Some people do not like this set up. However, it works well for making sure you have a good scope, especially if you also put a level on the scope.

Leupold Rifleman Rings See-Thru Cross Slot Base 1" High Black Gloss Model# 57395 30317573959 | eBay

Hunting Alloy Bubble Spirit Level for Rifle Scope Laser with 30mm to 1" Reducer | eBay

Seethrough rings very poor idea . A good consistent anchor point is extremely important in hitting your target . When a shooter moves his head & face around this guarantees a miss or poor shot placement . A tight cheek weld on any stock means a lot with shot placement . Kisser buttons on bows cheek weld on crossbows & firearms .see through rings cheek down to look through cheek & head up to look through the scope . To much inconsistent head movement . Either shoot open sights or a scope . Trying to do both is poor shooting practices .

 

[Harley469]

Seethrough rings very poor idea . A good consistent anchor point is extremely important in hitting your target . When a shooter moves his head & face around this guarantees a miss or poor shot placement . A tight cheek weld on any stock means a lot with shot placement . Kisser buttons on bows cheek weld on crossbows & firearms .see through rings cheek down to look through cheek & head up to look through the scope . To much inconsistent head movement . Either shoot open sights or a scope . Trying to do both is poor shooting practices .

I'm not a fan of see through rings. I like solid steel bases and steel Warne rings- have stuck with those for years.

 

[ttrailz]

Good man you are definitely on the right track . Warne steel bases & rings are top notch . Also Weaver grand slam steel bases . I hope you resolve your issues . Firearms are a lot like people each one is different no two are the same .A well fitting firearm is a pleasure to shoot & hunt with . Trial & error usually resolves simple problems . I had a scope issue before . 10 plus years on one of my 10ML2 . The crosshairs wires shook loose . Manmade it is guaranteed to malfunction after much use . Good luck in your endeavors to correct the issue . Happy shooting .

 

[GM54-120]

Warne steel bases & rings are top notch

Not really, the rings are sintered steel. A powder that is heated and pressed into shape. Plus the vertical split rings dont come on and off returning to zero. They are also not STANAG style. You would need to get the new Warnes Horizontals but they are still sintered.

I can think of numerous rings that are made better than the old style Warnes and ive used them for years. While i like steel on steel a set of rings machined from 7075 billet will handle anything you can throw at them. Such as Seekins or TPS. Seekins even offers a weaver style for 1" scopes. Each pair of rings is machined from the same block then cut into 2 rings. Then they are serial numbered as a pair.

 

[ttrailz]

Oh well to each his own . I have no issues with the Warne QD rings . Their bases & rings are on most of my weapons . I have quite a few grand slam steel base as well . I am not sure which bases & rings you are talking about . But educate me I am never to old to learn . I do not ever have any issues with the return to zero after removal .I am a Vietnam Veteran & was an armored in nam . I base my shooting knowledge on my in country combat shooting experiences .

 

[ttrailz]

Armorer not Armored

 

[GM54-120]

At the cost of the Warnes QDs you are getting closer to the price range of far better made rings. Like i said they are not NATO STANAG. They only grab the angled parts of the base. STANAG style grab the entire top and the bottom 2 angled cuts. My TPS XTR rings were $100ish on sale but they only fit true picatinny bases. They wont fit a weaver base.

There is a reason they went to this better design including the newer style Warnes rings. The contact area is far greater and returns to zero better.
https://warnescopemounts.com/product/warne-1-inch-pa-hign-matte-rings/

 

[ttrailz]

So 2 things I do not like PA means permanently attached correct . The other is I hate picatinny rails . Tried them do not like them . I like being able to take my scopes off when storing my weapons in safes . Also the ability to have multiple scopes zeroed for the same weapon allows zeroing for different applicable loads .I have several rails I tried to thick adding extra height . I would love it if someone made extra low QD rings & extra high stock combs . My shooting style is way down hard & tight on the comb . I know I have been checking the weapon right if my cheek bone is sore after many rounds .Everyone has a different shooting style . Mine was developed by the US Army & it serve me well I am still alive . Also my freezer is always full of meat that I have harvested .

 

[GM54-120]

One little torx removes the rings. Just the size of a small allen which is included with the rings. They come off in under a minute and return to zero when reinstalled. The new Warnes fit weaver bases and picatinny so its a moot point. Ive got a set of Vortex Pro rings that are very similar but machined from 7075. Cost me less than Warnes too. They also fit both types of bases.

You can get extra low rings. My TPS are extra lows. Farrell sells lows in steel that are really low too. They are super expensive though.
LOW = 0.735"

 

[brad502a]

I have had no issues returning to zero with Pic rings. I of course mount the scope forward in the slots and use a torque wrench to tighten the screws.

 

[ttrailz]

Thank you for the info. Never to old to learn . This Jungle Stomping old Vietnam Veteran thanks you .

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Seethrough rings very poor idea . A good consistent anchor point is extremely important in hitting your target . When a shooter moves his head & face around this guarantees a miss or poor shot placement . A tight cheek weld on any stock means a lot with shot placement .

Some benchrest shooters will also tell you that pushing down on the rear of the stock with your cheek does not help accuracy. If have seen some of those who win benchrest matches consistently only touch the trigger when firing the shot, while using free-recoil of the rifle.
The rifle is going to move rearward several thousandths of an inch before the bullet leaves the bore. Consistency is the key to accuracy.

Parallax can also come into play on many scopes, and this can be a big factor when putting your eye in a different place while aiming.

There is no one-size fits all method for accurate shooting. Whatever works best for your situation is the answer.