What do I NOT need if using bh209 ... instead of 777/pyrodx?

[GenTarkin]

I understand that bh209 burns a little cleaner and therefore its not necessary to swab the barrel between each shot.
Is this the only difference or are there other things that dont have to be done when using bh209?

Also, Im still trying to figure out what cleaning supplies I will need, as far as actual cleaning products. I have the tools picked out, but not sure about products. Currently I use eezox on my 22LR marlin...its an awesome CLP...better at protecting(one of the best protectants avail) then cleaning and its a very light "dry" lubricant.

So, what else would I need for the knight vision I plan on getting?
Thanks

 

[pacobillie]

It is a lot cleaner. So you will need fewer patches and a lot less elbow grease and cleaning time.

You will need a powder solvent such as Hoppe's #9 solvent. You will also need a hot primer such as CCI 209M and a tight fitting sabot-bullet combo.

You will need to do a new sight-in of your scope.

Please make sure that your gun and BP are BH 209 compatible.

 

[GenTarkin]

Thanks for that =) I was aware of the hot primers, still looking for those and Im pretty sure that rifle will work fine w/ BH209.

Im curious, will my eezox work fine for lubrication? and all I need is the solvent? Hrm...after thinking about it, do these guns even really need lube? There really arent any moving parts cept hammer / trigger from what I can tell... lol
In which case...Im thinkin eezox would work ok since its a dryish lube.

Also, I read the owners manual for knight vision and it stated in order to clean the tiny hole on the one end of the breech plug it needs a drill bit run through it...do I need to use this method or can I let the plug just sit overnight in some sort of commercial cleaner , like simple green or something?

 

[RoadLizard]

I'm really new to all this too... just shot scope in on Friday, shooting BH209 and Bonded Shockwave bullets with EZ Glide sabots. I read a bunch on BH209 and bought a can of Montana X-Treme Blackhorn 209 solvent (internet order) and a can of Montana X-treme bore conditioner. They claim the 209 solvent is "specially formulated" to work on the BH209. Simple sniff test says it is dang close to Hoppes #9. I ordered the CCI Mag shotgun primers from Cabellas I think, like $25/1000 ea. I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots with the drill bit like you've read here, and shook it up in a container of T17 breech plug solvent (TC makes a jar that has a tray that the breech sits on), wiped it down good, greezed it and continued shooting. The channel through the breech was looking pretty narrow after 5 shots, but not completely occluded.

I cleaned the ML after getting it home from range like I would any other rifle. I hit it with a patch soaked (but wrang out) in Hoppes, then dry patched, then another with hoppes, then dry patched, then light coat to the bore with remmington oil. Cleaned the breech as above and coated threads with breech grease. One thing I learned in the Army is that crud will leach out of a bore over a period of days, so I always hit mine every day for about 3-days with a hoppes patch and then dry patch until the patches are clean. That's probably way overkill, but it was how I was taught, so... It only takes about 5-min and gives me an excuse to mess with a firearm! I also put a very light coat of oil on ALL metal parts (Army taught if you can see a finger print on the metal, it's too heavy!).

Others may say different, but I'd never put an industrial cleaner on any part of a firearm. Simple green is great stuff for cutting grease on a floor, but I wouldn't put it on a weapon. I'd stick with Hoppes and a gun oil like Rem Oil.

Hope this helps!

 

[guitarpicva]

Thanks for that =) I was aware of the hot primers, still looking for those and Im pretty sure that rifle will work fine w/ BH209.

Im curious, will my eezox work fine for lubrication? and all I need is the solvent? Hrm...after thinking about it, do these guns even really need lube? There really arent any moving parts cept hammer / trigger from what I can tell... lol
In which case...Im thinkin eezox would work ok since its a dryish lube.

Also, I read the owners manual for knight vision and it stated in order to clean the tiny hole on the one end of the breech plug it needs a drill bit run through it...do I need to use this method or can I let the plug just sit overnight in some sort of commercial cleaner , like simple green or something?

I use one product to clean, lube and protect. It's called Gunzilla. Excellent stuff. It's pricey, but you use very little.

If you want to do things the ez way, use a 50 cal. BoreSnake (made by Hoppe's). Two squirts of Gunzilla in each end of the barrel using the wand, and three or four passes with the BoreSnake and it's clean as a whistle!

I dunk the breech plug in a medium sized bottle of Hoppe's #9 while I am cleaning the barrel, then fish it out and brush and drill the fire channel, and pick the fire hole. Sight through it to make sure you see a tiny round light. Blow it out or use compressed air if you need to. I rarely do. Let it drain well, wipe and re-install (no lube, no tape). DONE!

No bore treatments, no "butters", no special anything. Any Clean/Lube/Protect will probably work just as well, I just happen to like Gunzilla.

 

[GenTarkin]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

 

[pacobillie]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

My typical range session with BH 209 is usually about 30 shots and I do not need to take the breech plug out or clean it. I do take the gun apart and clean everything when I get home. I pay special attention to the flash channel of the BP.

 

[RoadLizard]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

 

[RoadLizard]

Also forgot to say that Blackhorn209 has a great website (just their name dot com) with their recommendations for cleaning and load data.

 

[GenTarkin]

Thanks for the clarification roadlizard =)

Yeah, I saw their website but their guides and recommendations are all centered around the use of their products...while they may be good, its usually just a way for a manufacturer to get more money, where you could just use the plain old "alternatives"(in their eyes) and save money.

But, its good to know 30 shots will work on a trip, I guestimate around 20-30 shots may be fired through the gun, depending on how scared my gang(friends) is of recoil ROFL!

Now, just gotta dwindle down my list of tools to buy w/ the gun and order =)

Thanks again, feel like I know more of a technique to clean and protect the gun.

I may get a boresnake for it, I have one for my 22LR and love it. But, I may just stick w/ the ramrod for cleaning the bore...not sure yet.

 

[RoadLizard]

Good stuff! Be sure to let us know how it goes!

 

[BigV]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

I usually get hang fires after shooting between 30 and 35 shots. I also carry a couple spare breech plugs so I can just change them out as opposed to cleaning them on the range.
I have never has a fail to ignite only hang fires with BH209.

 

[GenTarkin]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

I usually get hang fires after shooting between 30 and 35 shots. I also carry a couple spare breech plugs so I can just change them out as opposed to cleaning them on the range.
I have never has a fail to ignite only hang fires with BH209.

k being the noob I am....what exactly is a hang fire?

 

[cayuga]

A hang fire is when you pull the trigger and there is a short delay before the main charge of the rifle goes off. This is usually caused because the bore of the rifle was not prepared properly. Its important that when you prepare the rifle, you blow the breech plug clean, and also have the bore of the rifle dry.

Lets say you want to go and shoot the rifle. We need to get the oil out of the bore first. So take a patch. Apply some isopropyl alcohol to it. Don't saturate it, just get it damp. Now swab the barrel bore. This will pull the oil out of the bore of the barrel. Now put a dry patch on the jag and again swab the bore. Now push that dry patch all the way down the barrel to the breech. Put a 209 primer in the breech plug and fire off that rifle. This will push the oil out of the breech onto that patch. Pull the patch. Now push another one down the bore and do it all over again. After the second primer has been fired, the breech is empty and the fire channel clean. So you are ready to load and shoot. You should not get a hang fire this way.

When you swab between shots, the trick is, the swab patch should not be too wet, and not too dry. Just damp. And if you suspect it was too damp,. run a dry patch after it to clean and dry the bore.

 

[BigV]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

I usually get hang fires after shooting between 30 and 35 shots. I also carry a couple spare breech plugs so I can just change them out as opposed to cleaning them on the range.
I have never has a fail to ignite only hang fires with BH209.

k being the noob I am....what exactly is a hang fire?

Hang fires from using BH209 are usually caused from your breech plug becoming fouled with carbon. It is a common problem with BH209. Using a drill bit (or other tool) to clean the carbon out periodically minimizes the problem.

 

[GenTarkin]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

I usually get hang fires after shooting between 30 and 35 shots. I also carry a couple spare breech plugs so I can just change them out as opposed to cleaning them on the range.
I have never has a fail to ignite only hang fires with BH209.

k being the noob I am....what exactly is a hang fire?

Hang fires from using BH209 are usually caused from your breech plug becoming fouled with carbon. It is a common problem with BH209. Using a drill bit (or other tool) to clean the carbon out periodically minimizes the problem.

So, it just doesnt "fire"? just primer goes off and nothing happens? That a hangfire?

Also, is firing primer alone a method to clear the channel or is the buildup too hard to get cleared by a bare primer? (need drillbit)?
Also, what can I use to clean the smaller hole? like a paper clip or something? lol

 

[BigV]

Wow, so for the most part you use the CLP on the ML just like you would any other firearm? Except the breech plug...just need to do that special treatment process and its all ready to go?

Im curious, how often does the breech plug need to be cleaned? Roadlizard mentioned after 5 shots it needs to be cleaned?

I dont know how many times I will shoot the gun on an outing(maybe 20shots) but...it really needs to be done that much?

Thanks =)

Quick clarification due to my poor communication skills... I cleaned the breech plug after 5 shots and you could see a ring of black starting to close off the fire channel, but it wasn't totally occluded (you could still see light through it). I cleaned it and shot 9 times more without cleaning and without issue. I don't doubt that you may get 30 shots without trouble.

What I don't know (and maybe someone can expound on) is, what impact does this shot-by-shot increased fouling have? Is it like a I/O or light switch in that each shot is just as good as the previous until the last one where you pull the trigger and fail to get ignition, or is there an errosion of accuracy as the buildup approaches failed ignition without having reached it? I'd guess light switch, but don't really have anything solid to base that on.

Thanks
Roadlizard

I usually get hang fires after shooting between 30 and 35 shots. I also carry a couple spare breech plugs so I can just change them out as opposed to cleaning them on the range.
I have never has a fail to ignite only hang fires with BH209.

k being the noob I am....what exactly is a hang fire?

Hang fires from using BH209 are usually caused from your breech plug becoming fouled with carbon. It is a common problem with BH209. Using a drill bit (or other tool) to clean the carbon out periodically minimizes the problem.

So, it just doesnt "fire"? just primer goes off and nothing happens? That a hangfire?

Also, is firing primer alone a method to clear the channel or is the buildup too hard to get cleared by a bare primer? (need drillbit)?
Also, what can I use to clean the smaller hole? like a paper clip or something? lol

A hang fire is a delayed fire. The primer goes of...then a second later the gun fires.

Firing a primer will not clear the breech plug channel. The gun you have will determine what size drill bit (turned by hand) to use. My Omega uses a 1/16" drill bit. Carbon build up is very hard. The drill bit will remove it.

 

[Omega45]

There is really no need to soak your plug in any solvent. A 1/8th drill bit spun by hand will cut through the built up carbon in the flash channel. A Q-tip will clean out the primer pocket. A lightly oiled patch will wipe off any fouling on the outside of the plug.

Just remember to snap a few primers prior to loading to clear the flash channel of any oil that may have seeped into the plug from oiling the bore. Oil in the breechplug will cause a misfire. 8)

 

[SteveH]

Thanks for that =)Im curious, will my eezox work fine for lubrication? and all I need is the solvent? Hrm...after thinking about it, do these guns even really need lube? There really arent any moving parts cept hammer / trigger from what I can tell... lol
In which case...Im thinkin eezox would work ok since its a dryish lube.

I shoot BH209 in my Omega X7 and use Eezox for everything except for the breech plug. Eezox really is a CLP product. I particularly like the way it ends up being dry on the gun, inside and out. Just wish it was easier to get.

For the breach plug, the best thing I have found is Windex All surface cleaner (the one with vinegar), it works the best for cutting through the grime on the plug. But truely, any all purpose cleaner that you find underneath your kitchen sink works fine.

A drill bit (1/8" for Knight, I think) does make cleaning out the primer side of the plug easier, I just use the one in my set. Maybe some day I'll get one dedicated to my range box.

 

[GenTarkin]

Well, got done cleaning rifle last night. This is what I did...
Removed breach plug and placed in a hot cup of simple green / water

Then, took apart rifle down to the diagram indicated in owners manual, the forestock was a pain to get off, it wouldnt budge till I put boiling water down the barrel.

So, put funnel in breach, poured boiling water down it...MY GOSH the barrel got hot and stayed hot for like a half an hour.
Then, was able to get stock off and get barrel by itself, then from breach end .. put cleaning jag w/ patch, scrubbed barrel, then scrubbed w/ eezox, then some dry patches .. then let sit and dry.

Then, took plug outta simple green, put toothbrush in simplegreen then scrubbed the threads clean. Then, crammed some qtips into the flash channel, removed the buildup from test firing at factory I suppose.
Then ran more Qtips in it till was dry / clean.
Blew the flash hole out dry.

Then took toothbrush to threads on breech end of barrel, got them clean, then dried w/ Qtips / patches and finger ..

Made sure everything looked / felt dry, let sit for a while.

Reassembled gun

Then put teflon tape around breech plug and screwed into breech. Made a decent seal I think...wont know till fire it.

Let sit overnight w/ breech open in case still has drying to do in plug.

Seems to have gone well =) also, eezox'd exterior metal parts.

Also, question I tried a 1/8th" drillbit ... but the flash channel is larger then that... dont I want a drillbit that fits the hole nearly the same size as the hole?

Feedback appreciated =)