What muzzleloaders can shoot smokeless? Any sidelocks?

[drpatton]

I never have used smokeless in a muzzleloader. I don't have the knowledge or experience to even try it. But I am curious as to what rifles are able to shoot it? I read a couple articles over 20 years ago, where people shot or tested a Ruger "Old Army" with smokeless and it worked fine.

So, how do you know what can and what should not fire smokeless?

Thanks

 

[eekjellander]

I never have used smokeless in a muzzleloader. I don't have the knowledge or experience to even try it. But I am curious as to what rifles are able to shoot it? I read a couple articles over 20 years ago, where people shot or tested a Ruger "Old Army" with smokeless and it worked fine.

So, how do you know what can and what should not fire smokeless?

Thanks

BP only stamped on barrel is a hint! /Ed

 

[drpatton]

BP only stamped on barrel is a hint! /Ed

I didn't know certain barrels were made for smokeless. I thought they were all stamped BP only.
Ok. Educational moment.

 

[deermanok]

There's a whole sub forum here about smokeless muzzleloading rifles.
They're a different breed from traditional.

 

[JeffB1961]

i recently read in a thread here that the Woodman Arms Patriot can handle light loads of smokeless with the standard barrel .
how light , i have no idea .
i'm just parroting what i've read here in the hope that folks will elaborate on it's abilities .

 

[Steelheader323]

I recommend you do a lot of searching and a lot of reading up.. smokeless muzzleloaders are as safe as the user is but that only goes so far and things can get ugly really fast. There are not very many factory rifles that are smokeless rated..In fact I can only thing of 2. The savage being one and from what I have read the patriot is capable of light loads but again.. go to the manufacturer on what’s considered “light” the rest of your smokeless choices are gonna be custom builds

 

[mwwoodman]

i recently read in a thread here that the Woodman Arms Patriot can handle light loads of smokeless with the standard barrel .
how light , i have no idea .
i'm just parroting what i've read here in the hope that folks will elaborate on it's abilities .

That is true, only the 40 and 45 cals. The 50 is not suitable. The 45 caliber has a recommended max of 45kspi.

 

[JeffB1961]

That is true, only the 40 and 45 cals. The 50 is not suitable. The 45 caliber has a recommended max of 45kspi.

for comparison ...... what kspi would 100 grains by volume of 777 fffg (or BH209) in a .50 cal create with a 250 grain bullet ?

 

[ElDiablo]

for comparison ...... what kspi would 100 grains by volume of 777 fffg (or BH209) in a .50 cal create with a 250 grain bullet ?

Most factory .50 muzzleloaders are rated for 25k-30k, IIRC. So, something less than that I’d guess. Maybe someone else here has a more precise answer.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Most factory .50 muzzleloaders are rated for 25k-30k, IIRC. So, something less than that I’d guess. Maybe someone else here has a more precise answer.

Here in the U.S., we have private pressure testing by some of the gun companies, and largely it is our lawyer population that assures we have very good barrels made in the U.S., rather than a Proof House as in Europe or the British Isles. The Proof Houses have had some very important criticisms over the past few centuries, and yet our own "Proof House", lawyers, have negated the need for an actual Proof House in the U.S.
I'm hoping you or others on this Forum can elaborate on European pressure testing, since so many MLs were and are made there. I'm very familiar with CUP and psi pressure testing and pressures as for modern firearms and also black powder cartridge guns, but have always wondered how the MLs are pressure tested under European proof laws where they measure in kilograms or BAR rating; namely, what are the European proof parameters for, say, a .45 and .50 ML barrel, and how can we Yanks extrapolate that to pressure measured by CUP or psi?
Then we can much better talk about smokeless powder and ML barrels.
Thanks and aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[Greg_E]

Testing a muzzle loader should be pretty easy, unscrew the primer area, screw in pressure test device and use electric hot wire to fire the charge. Not a lot of reason to not have known pressures. Don't even need to wreck a barrel.

Of course that sounds a lot more simple than it really is, but shows what could be produced by big powder companies for not a huge amount of money.

 

[ENCORE50A]

............ how can we Yanks extrapolate that to pressure measured by CUP or psi?
Then we can much better talk about smokeless powder and ML barrels.
Thanks and aloha, Ka'imiloa

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

 

[Greg_E]

That is an interesting device. It does say that on octagon barrels you will need a known pressure to calibrate the system. At $800 it might save someone who is trying to develop maximum loads from a trip to the hospital. If it worked on the thicker barrels, and was a little cheaper, I might pick one up.

 

[Tony gilbert]

Here in the U.S., we have private pressure testing by some of the gun companies, and largely it is our lawyer population that assures we have very good barrels made in the U.S., rather than a Proof House as in Europe or the British Isles. The Proof Houses have had some very important criticisms over the past few centuries, and yet our own "Proof House", lawyers, have negated the need for an actual Proof House in the U.S.
I'm hoping you or others on this Forum can elaborate on European pressure testing, since so many MLs were and are made there. I'm very familiar with CUP and psi pressure testing and pressures as for modern firearms and also black powder cartridge guns, but have always wondered how the MLs are pressure tested under European proof laws where they measure in kilograms or BAR rating; namely, what are the European proof parameters for, say, a .45 and .50 ML barrel, and how can we Yanks extrapolate that to pressure measured by CUP or psi?
Then we can much better talk about smokeless powder and ML barrels.
Thanks and aloha, Ka'imiloa

we really should have a proof house like england ive been to the burmingham proof house its cool

 

[ENCORE50A]

That is an interesting device. It does say that on octagon barrels you will need a known pressure to calibrate the system. At $800 it might save someone who is trying to develop maximum loads from a trip to the hospital. If it worked on the thicker barrels, and was a little cheaper, I might pick one up.

IIRC that's the program most over on Doug's and Hank's used to determine charges. I could be wrong. It could have been a different strain gauge?

 

[Greg_E]

It would be fun to see the difference between old Goex, old Pyro, and new 777 in my rifle. But not $800 worth of fun right now.

 

[drpatton]

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

My first and only question is, does applying extremely high voltages to the gun metal, change or alter the metal in any way? Gun metal is different from normal copper or aluminum wires carrying an electrical current.

Groups or clubs may be able to afford this tester.
Personally, I believe it's neat, but unless I was a gunsmith, I would have no real World use for it.

 

[Greg_E]

It said it was a strain gauge, so it shouldn't run any voltage through the barrel.

 

[drpatton]

It said it was a strain gauge, so it shouldn't run any voltage through the barrel.

Maybe I mistook an electrical test lead for something else, but what attached to the outside of the barrel sure looked like one.

 

[d414hiker]

i recently read in a thread here that the Woodman Arms Patriot can handle light loads of smokeless with the standard barrel .
how light , i have no idea .
i'm just parroting what i've read here in the hope that folks will elaborate on it's abilities .

Click the load Data Tab on the woodman arms website.
Here is what I copied from that page:
.45 caliber 1-20 twist cut rifled barrel. (This is a different Barrel and the only one which is suitable for smokeless powder)

This barrel is great for full bore bullets that are sized with a smooth sizing die. Fury and Parker offer great 250, 275 and 300 grain bullets for use in this.

If you wish to shoot smokeless powder, please contact Mark Woodman at [email protected]