Which One ?

[gman57]

Question, which bullet has more of a knockdown punch in a 50 cal between 50-125 yds , the Speer 250 Deep Curl (gold dot) or the Barnes TEZ 250. I have both and they shoot similar cant decide which to hunt with.

 

[sabotloader]

gman57

This a very biased answer so take it in stride.... of the to mentioned I believe that both bullets have the potential to knock the snot out of the animal at the ranges you suggested.

I also believe if you would have asked which might be the most consistently knock the snot out, i I would have replied easily - the Gold Dental/Deep Curl because at times the Barnes will pencil through on some occasions at the closer ranges... Longer ranges - the Barnes is an excellent bullet at is has slowed down enough that it will expand on most any hit and penetrate further.

The Gold Dot/Deep Curl will emulate a Nosler Partition most of the time...
These are some Gold dots that I tortured tested....

NOW! if you really want to go crazy get some of these 250's

 

[GM54-120]

Question, which bullet has more of a knockdown punch in a 50 cal between 50-125 yds , the Speer 250 Deep Curl (gold dot) or the Barnes TEZ 250. I have both and they shoot similar cant decide which to hunt with.

Wow thats a tough one but i would have to give the edge to the Barnes just because a close shot with a heavy charge will make the GoldDot 250 expand like mad. The 300gr GoldDot/Deepcurl will hold up much better up close and drive deeper for the "not so perfect shot".

Now at your max range the GoldDot 250 will give near 100% reliable expansion and very good weight retention once it sheds a little bit of velocity. It was made for 45 Long Colt performance levels so in a ML we are pushing it a little bit.

The Barnes 250gr Expander MZ would provide the best of both worlds IMO and flies plenty flat out to 150 yards. It expands well at almost any ML velocity with great weight retention. It is also one of the most accurate Barnes i have ever shot.

Before i fill a tag, i take the best i have for the widest variety of shot placements and ranges. After that i try other options to see how they perform.

Barnes Spitfires without the tip are the only ones ive had problems with 100% expansion. Ive never had a Expander MZ fail to open up and yours are basically a tipped MZ.

1 vote for the Barnes or the Lehigh 250gr

The GoldDot 250 though has given me the largest wound channel of anything ive shot into media.

This was just 80grs and maybe 25 yards. The bullet only retained about half its weight but penetrated just fine.

Sometimes the Spitfires do this, to give an example of how some barnes can fail.
Left was a light charge to simulate a lower fps impact. The one on the right was near max.

 

[frontier gander]

i prefer the barnes type of bullet. I use Thor bullets which is a barnes but in full bore size, very accurate and consistent in opening up.

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

Wow thats a tough one but i would have to give the edge to the Barnes just because a close shot with a heavy charge will make the GoldDot 250 expand like mad. The 300gr GoldDot/Deepcurl will hold up much better up close and drive deeper for the "not so perfect shot".

But, i do not believe that to be the case.... the Gold Dot has a piece of copper located in the lead thad retard over expansion or pan caking of the bullet.

If you look in the picture above and look right in the center you can see the Gold Dot right in the center of the lead - hence the name "Gold Dot" + that is why I say the it is a por man's Nosler - it has controlled expansion....

If you get a chance take a hack saw and cut the bullet in half you will find the dot...

Here is another picture of the 'Gold Dot'

Here is a bi-sected 'Gold Dot' it is not much but it appears to work...

Of course the proof is in the pudding... Lee shot a hog right through the shield with a 250 Gold Dot - it was quite a davastating shot - i can not remember the particulars but if he picks up on this thread he can tell you about it.

I have suceeded in 'destroying' a Gold Dot by shooting it into a Basalt Rock wall @ 100 - that rock pretty much did it in - but i does all bullets in!

 

[GM54-120]

This is what mine looked like after the wound channel pic.

GoldDot 45 Colt 250gr Retained 134gr Expanded OD .693-.624 80gr BH209

It went through this to cause a fast hydraulic shock. Wet compress phone book and particle board first to simulate hide and bone. Then the water to make it open up fast.

Granted this media is very tough on HP bullets and performance on game should be far better. The deeper the hp the harder this media is on the bullet. No other bullet ive tried in this left that kind of wound channel, not even a 50-300gr DeepCurl.

It did this to a huge 50-385gr CLHP and 110grs and its made for serious 50 S&W or Beowulf loads so it does inflate expansion and weight retention results.

Remington .500S&W 385gr CLHP Retained 372gr&342gr Expanded OD .848-.793 110gr BH209

It even blows all the front lead out of a 260gr Partition but i cant find that pic atm.

 

[jaybez101099]

Sabotloader......My question is about the Lehigh's you said... "Gold Dot + that is why I say the it is a poor man's Nosler - it has controlled expansion...." Is controlled expansion the way to go? And if so the Lehighs pedals break off so you have a solid piece and a few pedals that spilt off so wheres the controlled expansion with those. I always want a large object that produces as much damage as possible on its given path.

No matter what projectile one shoots placement is the number one factor...I.E. my traditional bow(45lbs) shooting a 2 blade hand sharpened nuge blade..

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

Shoot those look like Uni-Cores not Gold Dots + I have never seen a Gold Dot loose that much weight?

Take a picture from the bottom of the bullets if you can.


Here is a .451/260 Nosler with the lead gone from the nose

Here is a .458/300 with the lead still in the nose...

 

[Lee 9]

Question, which bullet has more of a knockdown punch in a 50 cal between 50-125 yds , the Speer 250 Deep Curl (gold dot) or the Barnes TEZ 250. I have both and they shoot similar cant decide which to hunt with.

The Gold Dot or Deep Curl as they now call them is best at dropping deer on the spot. I had issues with the Barnes not opening right on long angle shots other people have had issues with them penciling at close range.

 

[sabotloader]

Sabotloader......My question is about the Lehigh's you said... "Gold Dot + that is why I say the it is a poor man's Nosler - it has controlled expansion...." Is controlled expansion the way to go?

By the standards set by most American hunters using the normal expanding bullet - I beleive it the best way to go.... the Barnes, Swift A-Frames, Nosle Partions have all shown the increased penetration of the bullet is enhanced by controlling the expansing so that it does not get to large and drastically reduce penetration. Also consider the Lehigh design is a German thing from Europe where everyone hunts with smaller caliber rifles than we do here in the States and most often harvest their game with the same ease we do.

And if so the Lehighs pedals break off so you have a solid piece and a few pedals that spilt off so wheres the controlled expansion with those. I always want a large object that produces as much damage as possible on its given path.

The fact is that the Lehigh does produce a larger wound channel in the internal highly liquid internal organs. 6 petals break off the bullet when they reach a 40* angle, in this liquid atmospher of the organs - they then radiate out a given distance creating a greater wound channel for a given distance. The do not weigh enough to go to far and they will not go far in muscle tissue at all... maybe and inch or two at best. The bullet needs 1 1/2 inches of a liquid atmosphere to reach 40* and break off. So if you shoot through a bone like the shoulder the bullet will not open very far at all - it just penetrates - when it clears the bones/hide/muscle and enters the organs (either the chest cavity or the guts) the nose will fill with liquid and force the petals open. Once they open and break off the body and the heviest portion of the bullet continues to penetrate creating hydrostatic damage and cutting it way through like a 'Keith Nose' conical. Might look up the damage that a 'Keith Nose' does in muscle tissue.

No matter what projectile one shoots placement is the number one factor...I.E. my traditional bow(45lbs) shooting a 2 blade hand sharpened nuge blade..

No doubt but I also believe that these preimium bullets including the Lehigh will allow you to not to have to make the perfect shot everytime and still achieve a quick humane harvest.

 

[GM54-120]

GM54-120

Shoot those look like Uni-Cores not Gold Dots + I have never seen a Gold Dot loose that much weight?

Take a picture from the bottom of the bullets if you can.

They say on the box 45 Colt (.452) 250gr GDHP #4484. The hollow point is deeper than the cutaway pic you posted. Much deeper than the 300gr with the DeepCurl label i just got.

I just looked at the bottoms of those and the 300gr .451 UniCore soft point and they all look identical. Dished base with a flat rim.

 

[sabotloader]

GM54-120

Then they are Gold Dots....

 

[GM54-120]

sabotloader

Its just odd that the hollow point on my 250s is huge. It goes deeper than the cannelure. These also mic out over .452 a little bit. I wonder if i got a bad batch or if they changed the design.

They shoot great and im completely sure the 80gr youth load we did for my friends son will be completely effective. Making a bullet hit that water before it hits the totally soaked phone books is just brutal on some kinds of bullets. Im trying to stop them before they can hit the dry books which is even worse.

The 300gr DeepCurls i have look just like all your pics and the 50A&E-300gr performs just like your torture tests too, nearly flawless with the nice GOldDot in the mushroom.

 

[SteveH]

I have a box of those 250's with the crazy deep hollow points. They shoot well at the range but have not tried them out yet on deer.

 

[gman57]

Thanks for your input guys Im gonna give the Deep Curls with Harv. short blk on top of 100 gr Bh the first go when the season opens.

GM54-120
Mine also are as deep as yours and they mic out to .453, part #4484 you dont have a freak batch or I have one too...

 

[sabotloader]

gman57

that will work...

 

[Racklover]

What about the Lehigh 250's for elk?

 

[sabotloader]

Racklover

I sure would not say they 'couldn't' work but I would feel a bit under-gunned with a 250 on elk.