My Accura shreds Barnes TEZ sabots

[shiner200gr]

I started inline with an inexpensive 50 cal. CVA model, I don't remember which one. It dearly loved Barnes 250 TEZ bullets. When I graduated to a V2 stainless Accura, I continued with those bullets. All was going pretty well until I tried to speed up the load with larger powder loads and BH 209. Eventually, I arrived at 200 grains, which resulted in bad groups and mostly uncontrollable recoil. So, coming back to my senses, I have reduced powder loads incrementally trying to get some resemblance of accuracy. I'm down to 110 grains of BH 2F and finding that I'm still shredding sabots with the Barnes bullets. I love the way they load, but now I'm looking at trying to find sabots that will hold up and get back to reasonable accuracy. Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[ElDiablo]

200 gr of BH209?!!!

Which sabots are you using - the factory Barnes supplied sabots?

 

[illinoishunter]

200gr BH209.... That was put in your Accura? Bigger cojones then I'll ever have. Lol

 

[shiner200gr]

Yes, I lost my mind for a while, check out my forum name and you'll understand why it was only a while. Yes factory sabots that are supplied with the bullets.

 

[ElDiablo]

We should say for the record that 120 grV is the max BH209 load recommended by Hodgdon.

You’ve got a couple other choices for sabots - Harvester or MMP. But, you really should have no problem shooting the Barnes supplied sabots with 110 grV, all else being equal.

When you say “shredding” - what do you mean exactly (any pics?)? Are they burnt, cracked, melted, petals missing? Guys can get saboted bullets to shoot up to 2500-2800+ fps with smokeless loads under the right conditions (modern sabot, cool barrel, smooth barrel, felt wad may help) which is significantly faster and hotter than you’re running with 110 grV.

Are you allowing the barrel to cool? Does your rifle have an unusually rough bore?

 

[shiner200gr]

Let me say first, I don't exagerate period. I have nothing to gain by doing so.
OK, with that out of the way, I can tell you that when I was experimenting with my flat trajectory project, I had some unusual results. Those TEZ sabots are blue. Today I shot only five rounds before the wind got bad enough to make results useless. I inadvertently left my cleaning vice at the range so later, so when I went back to retrieve it I took the time to try to collect and inspect some of the sabots. I found a total of 2 blue petals. No bases or anything else. It was then I remembered the time I was testing at 200 yards and found a nice little curl of blue plastic stuck to the edge of my bullet hole in the cardboard target backing. So....are they going down range with the bullet sometimes?

 

[ElDiablo]

You found part of the sabot stuck in the 200 yard target? Wow - never experienced or even heard of that! Sounds like you’ve got something weird going on for sure.

Have you bore-scoped that barrel? And, you didn’t say, but are you letting it cool sufficiently between shots?

Maybe try some Harvesters with those bullets and see what happens. You could also run a wool wad under your sabot.

 

[shiner200gr]

PS I never shoot a muzzleloader till the barrel is hot. Only shot that really counts in the field is that cold, clean first one. I clean squeaky clean between shots. A ten shot range session is about most I ever shoot.

 

[jsteurrys]

You really need to scrub the barrel good if you are blowing sabots with a plastic solvent and brush or JBs to remove any plastic residue or you will continue to have issues.

I believe the MMP HPH24 is the same sabot as shipped with the TEZs just a different color. You could try MMP HPH12 or Harvester sabots as they should yield a bigger loaded diameter.

https://mmpsabots.com/store/black-hph12-sabot50-pcs/
https://harvestermuzzleloading.com/.../products/premium-high-pressure-sabots-50-cal
I could send you some of each to try.

 

[shiner200gr]

You really need to scrub the barrel good if you are blowing sabots with a plastic solvent and brush or JBs to remove any plastic residue or you will continue to have issues.

I believe the MMP HPH24 is the same sabot as shipped with the TEZs just a different color. You could try MMP HPH12 or Harvester sabots as they should yield a bigger loaded diameter.

https://mmpsabots.com/store/black-hph12-sabot50-pcs/
https://harvestermuzzleloading.com/.../products/premium-high-pressure-sabots-50-cal
I could send you some of each to try.

Great. This is exactly the info. I was looking for. I think if I dig deep enough, I may have one or both of those sabots from back in the day, can you recommend a plastic solvent please. I have a little JB left somewhere as well. I also have a Teslong bore scope. I'll send a report next week. Thanks.

 

[jsteurrys]

I use Shooters Choice products.

https://shooters-choice.com/shotgun-and-choke-tube-cleaner/
I would finish with JBs.

 

[ENCORE50A]

................ I took the time to try to collect and inspect some of the sabots. I found a total of 2 blue petals. No bases or anything else. It was then I remembered the time I was testing at 200 yards and found a nice little curl of blue plastic stuck to the edge of my bullet hole in the cardboard target backing. So....are they going down range with the bullet sometimes?

Backing down the charge is a start.
Petals coming off a sabot can be common, and pieces can be hard to find. Now if they're remaining attached to the bullet and hitting the target, there's a problem. The boys with the RUM's had issues with the recommended bullets (Barnes) and sabots. You could hold the sabot and actually try to throw the bullet out of it and it remained stuck, right out of the package. To cure that, they made sure that they broke each bullet loose from the sabot prior to loading. That worked. It ....... might ........ possibly ... be something to check with your 250's.
I could imagine that the blue tip might have come off at the target, but I've never had or known of a sabot hitting a target at 200yds.
Trying different sabots could cause loading issues. I will say that the H5045LB or H5045SB are the sabots used by Ultimate Firearms Inc., and are rated for up to 200grs of BP or substitutes. NOT 200grs OF BH209.

I'd get some shotgun wad remover and clean the barrel thoroughly, then back the charge to no more than 120grs VOLUME.

 

[rangerod]

I got myself in the habit of always checking my spent sabots at the range. Petals fully open and intact with the base also intact.I also check for good expansion of the base.

 

[shiner200gr]

I could imagine that the blue tip might have come off at the target, but I've never had or known of a sabot hitting a target at 200yds.

This is why I prefaced this post the way I did. I know this is hard to believe, and it's more of a side exclamation than a conspiracy theory. I actually saved the plastic. It was no way part of a tip, it was a curlycue (sic) kind of like a spring segment, and most definitely sabot material. Unimpressive to look at it sitting on a loading bench, out of context, so to speak.
Thanks bfor bearing with me, I will report progress.

 

[mm106807]

I started inline with an inexpensive 50 cal. CVA model, I don't remember which one. It dearly loved Barnes 250 TEZ bullets. When I graduated to a V2 stainless Accura, I continued with those bullets. All was going pretty well until I tried to speed up the load with larger powder loads and BH 209. Eventually, I arrived at 200 grains, which resulted in bad groups and mostly uncontrollable recoil. So, coming back to my senses, I have reduced powder loads incrementally trying to get some resemblance of accuracy. I'm down to 110 grains of BH 2F and finding that I'm still shredding sabots with the Barnes bullets. I love the way they load, but now I'm looking at trying to find sabots that will hold up and get back to reasonable accuracy. Any suggestions appreciated.

Odd, I’ve shot the 290 grain tez Barnes bullets several times. I’ve never exceeded 84 grains by weight of BH tho. I had good groups with 70-84 grains of BH by weight. I’m shooting CVA LR-X. I never noticed sabots shredding or deforming.

 

[CatamountRob]

Odd, I’ve shot the 290 grain tez Barnes bullets several times. I’ve never exceeded 84 grains by weight of BH tho. I had good groups with 70-84 grains of BH by weight. I’m shooting CVA LR-X. I never noticed sabots shredding or deforming.

That’s because you’re using a normal amount of propellant.

 

[bronko220002]

I shoot 290 gr TEZs out of my Accura but I tossed the blue sabots and replaced them with Harvester black Crush Rib sabots. Accuracy is excellent and I don't load enough propellant to ignite the sabots and send fire balls down range! Whew, 200 gr of BH209! You're lucky you're still here to tell us this. That's 60% over the recommended maximum. That says a lot about the strength of the Accura.
As for the solvent, Montana Xtreme makes a good plastic solvent.

 

[shiner200gr]

Well men, I put the bore scope down there and saw a whole lot of streaks that I assume must be plastic. So I got out a little over bore size wire brush, wrapped with a cotton patch loaded with JB and went at it for most of a couple hours. Cleaned all the grit out of it and took another picture of the bore at the same point about midway down. I have attached the before and after. See any difference? I think I need that plastic solvent!

 

[ENCORE50A]

Yup

 

[11th Corps]

Would Kroil do the job? I clean my modern firearms that I've shot cast lead bullets with a swab of Kroil that I allow to set for a few minutes. Then wrap a few strands of all copper Chore Boy around the proper size jag. It cleans lead out.
Might work with plastic.