Williams FP Hawken VS Lyman 57SML

[Tye]

If you don’t want to spend the money on a Dedicated Long range Soule sight, and you just want to test the “waters” with a Decent sight setup for your TC Hawken or Renegade Rifle? I say Go with a Lyman 17AHB Globe Front sight due to it being the lowest Globe sight made at .404 High, This allows you to keep the Peep Bridge as low as possible, Leaving you more Elevation adjustment. If you go with a Taller Front Globe sight you end up wasting more of your elevation.

Here you can see just how low the Lyman 17AHB Globe is on 1 of my Rifles

And go with the Williams FP Hawken Peep sight with Gib Lock elevator Screw. This is the next best thing to a Much more expensive, dedicated long range Soule sight setup, This will get you out to 500, Maybe 600 Yards

Thank you for all the great info

 

[idahoron]

I have both of these sights. The Williams sights I have are on my MK85's.
I like them both. I do give the edge to Lyman under hunting condition's because of the push button that releases the slider to be adjusted quickly when hunting.
Both have limitations in low light. That said I would rather have that limitation than a buckhorn on my rifle. The advantages of the peep sight outweigh the disadvantages for me. I have had pretty good luck over the years with them.
The MK85's were put together for a very special purpose. We have a short range weapon hunt here in southern Idaho. We can use pistols, shotguns with scopes. We can use Muzzleloaders with scopes and sabots. I am so sure of my peeps that I forgo the ability to use a scope and use the peep sights. The Williams sights are my go to sights for that hunt.
The one thing I did was add a lyman globe peep. I honestly wish I would have kept the original front sight. I am planning to remove the Lyman globe and go back to the original sight or another sight that has fiberoptic of some sort. That river hunt is very short range and low light is the normal. Both of my MK 85's are set up for long range and I wish they weren't.

 

[Idaholewis]

@idahoron The Williams is every bit as fast with a Giblock (I think faster) UNLESS you have the Target Knob Model, Which i always advise against. The only edge i can give the Lyman over the Williams FP Hawken is the Lyman has the little Adjustable Plate on the side, I wish the Williams had something similar

 

[rmagnus]

I know this thread is a bit old but the info is something I’m interested in.

Appreciate the Lee Shaver insert recommendation those seem spot on. Will be ordering those.

I went with the target modle Williams Peep and am a little disappointed in them due to the small set screw that requires a 1/4 turn before making adjustments. My bigger issue is i dont have enough stock clearance to properly fit the sight on my Renegade. I’m ok with doing gunsmithing and the sort, but is it common to cut back the side of the stock to fit the sight? This is just a test fit and the sight is pretty well centered up vertically and horizontally but the side of the sight is just contacting the stock
.

 

[Bad Karma]

I know this thread is a bit old but the info is something I’m interested in.

Appreciate the Lee Shaver insert recommendation those seem spot on. Will be ordering those.

I went with the target modle Williams Peep and am a little disappointed in them due to the small set screw that requires a 1/4 turn before making adjustments. My bigger issue is i dont have enough stock clearance to properly fit the sight on my Renegade. I’m ok with doing gunsmithing and the sort, but is it common to cut back the side of the stock to fit the sight? This is just a test fit and the sight is pretty well centered up vertically and horizontally but the side of the sight is just contacting the stock
View attachment 19785.

Do not cut the stock. Either use spacers to raise the sight base or grind away some material under the sight base for clearance.

 

[Bad Karma]

Do not cut the stock. Either use spacers to raise the sight base or grind away some material under the sight base for clearance.

Okay that’s the Williams. I use spacers under the sight but also a taller front sight so the sight slide is raised just a bit. The Lyman 17AML is made for the TC. Also, Brownells used to stock the target style gib lock screw which you’ll use to loosen the sight slide to adjust elevation in the field.

 

[rmagnus]

Yea I hear ya loud and clear. Cutting the stock well more like contouring the stock would be a last resort. Spacers will only raise the sight not sure thats the solution. A spacer might be a good idea. The real issue is windage adjustment. I’ve got the sight centered up now but i have no room to move the sight to the right. I do like the Lyman 17AML just having a hard time finding one in stock. I plan to look for the Gib Lock also.

May exchange the target knob for the standard. My eyes are getting worse. Mother Nature is catching up to me. Figured the Target Knobs would be an easier way to make adjustments and this is pretty much a range rifle. Appreciate your input.

 

[idahoron]

Yea I hear ya loud and clear. Cutting the stock well more like contouring the stock would be a last resort. Spacers will only raise the sight not sure thats the solution. A spacer might be a good idea. The real issue is windage adjustment. I’ve got the sight centered up now but i have no room to move the sight to the right. I do like the Lyman 17AML just having a hard time finding one in stock. I plan to look for the Gib Lock also.

May exchange the target knob for the standard. My eyes are getting worse. Mother Nature is catching up to me. Figured the Target Knobs would be an easier way to make adjustments and this is pretty much a range rifle. Appreciate your input.

The gib lock screw was a modification I ran across back in 2014 from a friend of mine Mike. I was impressed when I saw it. The Gib Lock screw has to be shortened just a little bit to work right.
A spacer like the one i made under my 45 sight would help but I think moving the front sight would help too.

 

[MTY]

midsouthshooterssupply shows the 17AML in stock for $34.95

 

[rmagnus]

MTY thanks for the heads up on the glove sight.

Idahoron appreciate the advise. I’ll have to play with the positioning a bit. I’d like to use the rear screw on the tang to secure the sight as it puts the sight in a good overall position. Further forward it interferes with the hammer. I’m beginning to think shaving the stock will be necessary with the Williams Peep. I’m going to call Williams tomorrow and see what they say regarding fitment.

 

[Wyatt]

I'm seeing it priced at $39.45. Dyslexia?

 

[MTY]

You could be right, remember I am the one who started the old farts thread.

 

[rmagnus]

You could be right, remember I am the one who started the old farts thread.

Well i fit right in then. I seem to be the elder ( read oldest) of the guys i hunt and shoot with Anymore. Doesn’t seem fair because as a kid I was always the youngest.

 

[rmagnus]

Okay a day later and pondering the sight fitting. By moving the sight to the rear solved all the clearance issues and is actually a better position for shooting. I will need to shim either the rear of the sight base or maybe the entire sight. Won’t know until after I do some shooting. Using the stock front sight I should be able to calculate the front sight height needed. This project is back on track despite not quite being plug-n=play. Looking forward to seeing the results I get.

You guys have been a huge help. Thank you

Semper Fi

 

[brad502a]

Yea I hear ya loud and clear. Cutting the stock well more like contouring the stock would be a last resort. Spacers will only raise the sight not sure thats the solution. A spacer might be a good idea. The real issue is windage adjustment. I’ve got the sight centered up now but i have no room to move the sight to the right. I do like the Lyman 17AML just having a hard time finding one in stock. I plan to look for the Gib Lock also.

May exchange the target knob for the standard. My eyes are getting worse. Mother Nature is catching up to me. Figured the Target Knobs would be an easier way to make adjustments and this is pretty much a range rifle. Appreciate your input.

Why is there no room to move the sight to the right. Just the peep moves for windage.

 

[rmagnus]

Why is there no room to move the sight to the right. Just the peep moves for windage.

With the sight in the more forward position shown in my first posted picture the the vertical bar used for elevation was right up against the side of the stock. If I needed to move the sight to the right for windage there wasn’t any room to do it.

The simple solution was to move the sight rearward and use the forward mounting screw hole on the tang. This actually is a better position because it provides an index for my thumb when shooting. This way my grip will be easier to repeat.

Once I shoot it and figure out the front sight height needed I can drill the pistol grip and put a second mounting screw in. Some shim work will be needed.

 

[Bad Karma]

With the sight in the more forward position shown in my first posted picture the the vertical bar used for elevation was right up against the side of the stock. If I needed to move the sight to the right for windage there wasn’t any room to do it.

The simple solution was to move the sight rearward and use the forward mounting screw hole on the tang. This actually is a better position because it provides an index for my thumb when shooting. This way my grip will be easier to repeat.

Once I shoot it and figure out the front sight height needed I can drill the pistol grip and put a second mounting screw in. Some shim work will be needed.

That’s how I mount my Soule sights. (Don’t need to use tall front sight then.)

 

[idahoron]

I think you have it too far back. Is the rear hole on the sight over wood?

 

[rmagnus]

I think you have it too far back. Is the rear hole on the sight over wood?

Yes the rear sight is over the wood. I think its gonna work but need to get to the range to find out. I can only move it forward about a 1/4” before I’ll have clearance issues again. The rear mounting hole will get drilled into the wood where I can epoxy in a screw insert. The forward hole uses the rear wood screw going through the tang.

If I could mount it forward and use the rear mounting hole in the Peep Sight the I would have to drill and tap the tang. Either way something has to get drilled to use both mounting holes. I would prefer a screw going into a metal screw insert rather just into wood.

Do you have another suggestion?

edit; The reason why i think it will work is the peep is level with the bore and all the peep sight settings are neutral. This leaves the rear sight just a tad higher than the stock rear sight but the is plenty of adjustment to zero the sight. If I were to move the entire sight forward without making any elevation changes the sight will be even higher. At this point I’ll need a taller front sight. Right now I think a Lyman's 17AML will work just fine. And I plan to order the Lee Shaver card inserts.

 

[ihookem]

IdahoRon and Idaholewis, are you two brothers?