woodman arms patriot vs knight mountaineer/ultra-lite in .45 ???

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Wish I could try a knight ultralight with a brux barrel and the adjustable plug and not need anything more to make the rifle perform,, both are quality rifles!!, or shoot a Woodman arms bolt action with his barrel choices and breech plug,,,, can't get either one of those rifles can I,,, I appreciate the comments on both guns.
 
Bestill will spin a "smoker" Brux on a Knight and i bet he would love to see the Woodman adjustable plug too ;) :p
 
JeffB1961 said:
prices are between $900ish -$1000ish for them shipped so not far apart for that price range . the WAP has a 1:18 twist (1:24 also available) vs Knights 1:20 twist . break action vs. bolt action . melonite vs dynatech vs nitride , FWIU melonite is a form of nitride and both seem to be superior to dynatech FWICT . the WAP only comes with melonite but the knights are available in either nitride or melonite . a lot of the knights are a few months out concerning availability :( and the WAP has a 6-20 week ETA :( . i'm sure there's other differences and please share the ones i didn't mention that may be important/usefull to know .
soooooo ..... what are y'alls thoughts on these 3 guns when compared to each other ?
thanks , jeff

BTW , can the WAP use smokeless powder or just BP and BP substitutes ?

https://woodmanarms.com/shop.php
https://www.midwayusa.com/black-pow...er=45 Caliber&Brand=Knight&cid=23206&sortBy=5
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Melonite QPQ is nitride
 
GM54-120 said:
I think you are kidding yourself if you think all primers in the standard Patriot plug are gunna just seal up hunky dory. Isnt that the whole point of the "adjustable plug"?....So you can adjust headspace for various primer lengths. :think:
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you are 100% correct. I don't think any primer would seal in the standard plug. It's the nature of the beast and I would have to say the majority don't give a crap about blowback. The best primer that has almost sealed itself in the standard plug is the Remington STS. I shoot the adjustable plug in my 40 cal Patriot, for pressure regulation because I shoot smokeless sized bullets. It does have some minor blowback, but this thing shoots sub moa out to 300 and probably even further if I tried it.
 
Boonechaser said:
I’ve tried to like Knights and no matter how much I try or how many I’ve bought, I’ve turned around and sold them. I just don’t like bolt action muzzleloaders! I just never feel I can properly clean the threads or breach area and it drives me nuts.

I’ve never had to use a western system and always opted for the bare 209 primer variety and it always seemed lacking and very very dirty to shoot. An upgraded Bestill rear seal plug ($200) seemed to be the best (of standardish plugs) and seemed to improve everything very well but the only system that I really liked was the Bestill LRMP setup but its very expensive To have done.

so like GM stated to shoot mild smokeless loads in a Patriot, it does require a $120 breech plug but to get a knight where it should be out of the box is $120 up for standard plug replacement up to $500+ for the LRMP upgrade that Bestill offers.

I still want to try a Patriot and I can’t give a hands on review but hopefully won’t be too much longer. I agree with Mtn monkey, Mark is down to earth and terrific to work with. He has always responded to emails and messages and never once made me feel as i was bothering him.
Knight wont even answer what load they achieved 3000 fps, on their newest offering.
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Not all Knights are bolt action. MY MK 85 has plunger style hammer system, adapted for 209 primers, and works wonderful.
 
yep , they also make/sell a $200 nitrided break action , but it's out of stock currenly .
https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product/vision-freedom-break-action-muzzleloader/
Boonechaser said:
I’ve tried to like Knights and no matter how much I try or how many I’ve bought, I’ve turned around and sold them. I just don’t like bolt action muzzleloaders! I just never feel I can properly clean the threads or breach area and it drives me nuts.

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looking at MRX videos this AM and when cleaning the knights are much more involved than the simple tool less , other than the firing pin , design of the MRX . something to consider i think .
 
2 tools is all it takes to totally strip a Knight down to its major parts. Bolt and firing pin removal/assembly are toolless.

How many tools does the CVA take?.....Hint: its more than 2.
 
Purchased my first Muzzle loader Aug 2021, a Woodman Arms Patriot in .45 caliber. Timmy Buldoc is the absolute nicest person to order from. I picked up my Patriot from their shop and Timmy gave me a tour of their operation. Very impressive. Looking forward to my second Muzzle loader season taking my Patriot for a walk through some Catskill mountains. Light and comfortable enough to carry all day and the build quality is excellent. Would not hesitate to purchase one for my daughter if she chooses to join me in the Deer woods some day. 🦌🎄
 

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one of the first things i noticed about the CVA break actions is not being able to get to the trigger area IF it ever needs to be cleaned out . my 20 year old LOADED and not shot in 10+ years befor it was given to me optima was not given the best care ....... but the trigger did feel fine . i flushed it out with about a dozen good shots of ballistol spray . there was some black , then some gray and then just the spray . and the trigger felt the same . but it's not a fully adjustable fully accessable timmey trigger . it does have one adjustment screw and if it feels like the old optimas trigger i willl be fine with it . and the firing pin and it's spring are accessable .

thanks for correcting me 54 .
 
I just find it amusing when soooo many people say how easy it is to clean a CVA when in reality they are only doing about half the job. Ive seen piles of rusted CVA firing pins, springs and bushings. Well if its sooooo easy to clean why have i seen so many rusted to hell internals?

Oh thats right, that area is not so easy to clean. It is simple to clean the Knight trigger though. One screw removes a Knight trigger. No tools at all needed to remove the Knight firing pin from the bolt housing. Having owned a CVA Accura V1 i know this from a first hand perspective. To clean a CVA completely like i can my Knight is NOT any easier for me. Even with a QRBP.
 
They all require cleaning and I just accept the cleaning task as part of owning it. I could care less how easy one is to clean vs another. It's my gun and my responsibility to maintain it if I want it to work. I don't complain about either.
 
GM54-120 said:
Bestill will spin a "smoker" Brux on a Knight and i bet he would love to see the Woodman adjustable plug too ;) :p
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Last time I asked him about it, I was told even though he had in the past, he would not do another. But there are some out there.
GM54-120 said:
I think you are kidding yourself if you think all primers in the standard Patriot plug are gunna just seal up hunky dory. Isnt that the whole point of the "adjustable plug"?....So you can adjust headspace for various primer lengths. :think:
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didn’t say that but I did say that I have not heard anyone complain about them being excessively dirty, I have Knights.
And again for the price of an upgraded plug, I’m getting a factory smokeless rig.
 
For me one is just plain fuggly and the other is a classic styled rifle. I would never consider the former.

Bill
 
Boonechaser said:
didn’t say that but I did say that I have not heard anyone complain about them being excessively dirty,
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Sure you did, you said the Knight was broke because primers came out dirty. Well they come out dirty in the Patriot too without the plug upgrade. You know the exact same complaint you had about the Knight plug. Even Mark just said they DONT seal in the plug that comes with the Patriot.

So you have the SAME complaint about both guns yet you choose to only hold it against Knight.

Pretty obvious to me this seems to go deeper than a dirty breech. ;)
 
how long is the Picatinny Rail woodman sells for the patriot ? it looks short in the pic as does it's screw spacing . what is the screw spacing ? is there a decent pic or weaver rail that will fit it that anyone would care to recommend ?

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https://woodmanarms.com/shop.php
 
michiganmuzzy said:
I don't see the 1:20 Brux option on the site anymore. Are they just out of stock for now?
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I pulled them off temporarily, but will do them as a special order. I have had to lap 75% of the cut rifled barrels I've built to get them to load sized bullets consistently. I'm trying to decide how this will work on a larger scale before I get buried in orders.
I also have another process that we are developing where we can use a button barrel and lap it during manufacturing on a large scale basis. If it works, it will be significantly less cost than cut rifling and better.
 

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