Newby here, hoping someone can help me.

[lvanlanen]

I am brand new to muzzleloading. The gun I bought is a CVA optima V2. With it I also bought federal 209 primers, blackhorn 209 powder, hornady ELD-X 350Grain bullets, blackhorn 209 breech plug, and I put a vortex scope on it.

I am measuring out my powder 100grains by volume.

First time out with the gun I sighted it in with no issues. The gun was very responsive to my scope adjustments.

Second time out... first shot was 3inches high. Second shot was perfect. It shot great groups after that.

First shot was off but I chalked it up to either me being a novice at muzzleloading or maybe cold barrel is going to act different than a pre shot barrel. Either way it was on enough to go hunt and sit my bow stands where max shot would be 30 40 yards.

I loaded my gun day 1 of muzzle season. I hunted 6 days. Never saw a shooter. After season was done I decided to shoot and see if it was high again on the first shot...

Well I shot and the gun was low by 3 feet. Hardly felt any recoil. Almost as if the powder didn't really have any energy.

This has me freaked out... what if that was the day prior and I had shot at a big buck. I have no clue what the issue is and why that would've happened. Possibly condensation from the gun going inside to outside multiple times? I am hoping someone on here can give me a lesson on how to never have this happen again.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hope someone can help me.

 

[Clairebear]

Welcome to MM. Lots of variables, was the powder old, damp down the barrel,
Don’t give up, shoot it, try different powder

 

[WP79Vet]

Sounds like it could be a case of powder contamination? How did you clean the rifle before you loaded it for hunting?

 

[lvanlanen]

Sounds like it could be a case of powder contamination? How did you clean the rifle before you loaded it for hunting?

Out of all that shooting I only ever sent one dry patch through it.

 

[WP79Vet]

Hmmm.... it sounds like you got very poor powder ignition for some reason.

If you're sure that no moisture of any kind (residual cleaning fluids, rain down the barrel, etc.), the other possibilities I can think of are:

1) A bad primer. 209s are pretty reliable, though.

2) Somehow the bullet moved off the powder, so the powder wasn't tight to the flash hole, and maybe was lying loose down the barrel between flash hole and bullet.

Are all the mounting screws on your scope still tight? A long time ago I had a .22 scope with a loose crosshair, but that sounds unlikely on a Vortex, and scope problems wouldn't cause the anemic recoil.

 

[lvanlanen]

Hmmm.... it sounds like you got very poor powder ignition for some reason.

If you're sure that no moisture of any kind (residual cleaning fluids, rain down the barrel, etc.), the other possibilities I can think of are:

1) A bad primer. 209s are pretty reliable, though.

2) Somehow the bullet moved off the powder, so the powder wasn't tight to the flash hole, and maybe was lying loose down the barrel between flash hole and bullet.

Are all the mounting screws on your scope still tight? A long time ago I had a .22 scope with a loose crosshair, but that sounds unlikely on a Vortex, and scope problems wouldn't cause the anemic recoil.

Scope seems solid from all the checking I did. CVA muzzle loader rail vortex rings and vortex scope. I'm wondering if condensation from going outside in 20 degree and then inside to 65 degrees 6 days in a row would create enough condensation to cause faulty powder?

 

[WP79Vet]

Scope seems solid from all the checking I did. CVA muzzle loader rail vortex rings and vortex scope. I'm wondering if condensation from going outside in 20 degree and then inside to 65 degrees 6 days in a row would create enough condensation to cause faulty powder?

There would certainly be lots of condensation, and if the rifle was pointing upwards while it was indoors, condensation could conceivably run down the barrel, work past the bullet & base, and get into the powder. How hard is it to load your ELD-X bullets? I'm guessing that the bullet itself doesn't fill the grooves completely - otherwise it would be too hard to load. The plastic bases might fill the grooves... It would be interesting to load a bullet and base w/o powder, push it down about as far as it goes down with powder, take out your breech plug, and then look into the breech with the barrel pointing at a bright light to see if light gets around the bullet and base. If it does, I'd say it's possible that condensation is the culprit. Don't do this, though, unless it's possible to push the bullet back out! For us sidelock guys, taking out the breech plug is a major problem, and loading a bullet w/o powder is one of our nightmares....

 

[phalanx]

Did you clean yoir breechplug after all your shooting? BH209 plugs need to reamed/scraped out with a drill bit as the residue is pretty hard and can reduce the flash channel.

 

[lvanlanen]

Did you clean yoir breechplug after all your shooting? BH209 plugs need to reamed/scraped out with a drill bit as the residue is pretty hard and can reduce the flash channel.

No I did not, what is the recommended cleaning method for doing that?

 

[ElDiablo]

Well I shot and the gun was low by 3 feet. Hardly felt any recoil. Almost as if the powder didn't really have any energy.

Sounds like a primer, powder or inadequate back pressure issue. Condensation, contamination, fouling in the flash channel and or loose bullet or bullet moved off the powder a little.

I’d clean it good and ream the flash channel with the proper sized drill bit, then pop a couple 209s to make sure the plug is clean then load for hunting. And don’t bring it in and out of the house. Leave it cold.

And you’re using which Federal 209s? Standard 209As or Federal “muzzy” 209s?

Here are the Bh20@ ignition guidelines if you haven’t read them.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Ignition_Guidelines.pdf

 

[ElDiablo]

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Breach_Plug_Cleaning.pdf

 

[phalanx]

Thanks El D, I was just pulling them up for him to review!
John

 

[lvanlanen]

There would certainly be lots of condensation, and if the rifle was pointing upwards while it was indoors, condensation could conceivably run down the barrel, work past the bullet & base, and get into the powder. How hard is it to load your ELD-X bullets? I'm guessing that the bullet itself doesn't fill the grooves completely - otherwise it would be too hard to load. The plastic bases might fill the grooves... It would be interesting to load a bullet and base w/o powder, push it down about as far as it goes down with powder, take out your breech plug, and then look into the breech with the barrel pointing at a bright light to see if light gets around the bullet and base. If it does, I'd say it's possible that condensation is the culprit. Don't do this, though, unless it's possible to push the bullet back out! For us sidelock guys, taking out the breech plug is a major problem, and loading a bullet w/o powder is one of our nightmares....

Breech is super easy to take out in this gun.... bullet goes in like butter super easy. I did what you said. Lots of light coming through. Looks like along the rifling of the barrel it is not sealed. So with that said... should I look at another bullet?

 

[MrTom]

I'd say there wasn't enough pressure on the powder charge.

 

[ElDiablo]

hornady ELD-X 350Grain bullets

Guessing you mean the 340 gr ELDX? Yeah it’s basically the skirt that grips the bore when loaded (depending on the exact dimensions of your bore) - the bullet is a little undersized .499”.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/hornady-340-gr-bore-driver-eld-x-review.57889/
You’ll notice in the Bh209 ignition guidelines that a tight sabot is recommended for best performance.

 

[lvanlanen]

Sounds like a primer, powder or inadequate back pressure issue. Condensation, contamination, fouling in the flash channel and or loose bullet or bullet moved off the powder a little.

I’d clean it good and ream the flash channel with the proper sized drill bit, then pop a couple 209s to make sure the plug is clean then load for hunting. And don’t bring it in and out of the house. Leave it cold.

And you’re using which Federal 209s? Standard 209As or Federal “muzzy” 209s?

Here are the Bh20@ ignition guidelines if you haven’t read them.

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Ignition_Guidelines.pdf

Did a bunch of cleaning, going to get the breech cleaning drill bit. However, I would like to have reliable performance even if the gun had gone from cold to warm multiple times. Between truck rides, back country camping, and whatever else may come up... I don't want to have in the back of my head when i got to shoot, is this going to hit where I am aiming because it was in and out of my warm truck all week...

 

[lvanlanen]

Guessing you mean the 340 gr ELDX? Yeah it’s basically the skirt that grips the bore when loaded (depending on the exact dimensions of your bore) - the bullet is a little undersized .499”.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/hornady-340-gr-bore-driver-eld-x-review.57889/
You’ll notice in the Bh209 ignition guidelines that a tight sabot is recommended for best performance.

Yes, sorry I just was going off the top of my head, those are the slugs I tried using.... so the question is should I change lead or change powder? I want a reliable gun.

 

[ElDiablo]

I hear you. I load my rifles with Bh209 and hunt for days or months. I leave them loaded all season. Never had an issue. I suspect that if you follow the ignition and cleaning guidelines you’ll have a reliable set up.

Are you taping the muzzle after loading?

And, you didn’t say, which Federal 209s are you using?

 

[lvanlanen]

I hear you. I load my rifles with Bh209 and hunt for days or months. I leave them loaded all season. Never had an issue. I suspect that if you follow the ignition and cleaning guidelines you’ll have a reliable set up.

Are you taping the muzzle after loading?

And, you didn’t say, which Federal 209s are you using?

I sent a picture of the primers I'm using. What bullet do you use in your system?

 

[ElDiablo]

Well that could be part of your problem. Those are lower-powered “muzzy” primers. Made for 777 not Bh209. They may work under ideal conditions but not recommended for optimum performance.