Knight Rifles coming back to the market!

I was reading through the most recent issue of American Hunter Magazine and the "Industry Insider" column was about Knight Rifles. Here's what it says...



"Less than a year after Knight Rifles - the company that pioneered in-line muzzleloaders - declared bankruptcy, new ownership announced it's bringing the brand back to the market. PI Inc. acquired the Knight Rifles brand. Jeff Beene, PI Inc.'s president, said, "I'm very impressed with my personal Knight rifles and want to breathe new life into this brand that started the muzzleloading world as we know it today."



Anyone heard anything about this?

Sounds like you have been living on a rock in the South Pacific, or something? :lol:

First heard about it back in March 2010, with confirmation a few days later.

I wish them well, but CVA has been eating their lunch for a year now. T/C better watch their six too!

SW


As Busta indicates, this is relativiely old news... but, I really am hoping they can make a splash when they get back. The problem continues to be CVA, using foreign markets that gives them the ability to undercut the prices + their ability to copy and undercut. And there is no denying that they have improved their quality nearly 10 fold.

One of the big market questions that needs to be answered is, IMO, in the US market, are the bulk of the sales of ML's going to continue to be inexpensive muzzleloaders that extends the season for most hunters, or is there still a market for a QUALITY ml that might be considered a life time rifle. I continue to ask how many folks hunt year-round with a ML and how many hunt short special seasons only. Does all of this effect the price that you are willing to pay?

Ive owned seven inlines 4 knights ,1 white, 2 TC's and never considered a CVA after looking at one but that was a while back. WHAT has improved?
Im not bashing them I'm just ignorant about the new ones.

Sabotloader pretty much hit the nail on the head. I personally only hunt the special seasons when I can get drawn which is relatively little. I will however spend more for quality but limit it to less than $400 per rifle without all the accessories. I can get Whites for less than that and own a few. I have one Knight but unfortunately it is a Rolling Block which has proven to be less than their best. I would like a long range hunter but again I won't spend that much for a muzzleloader. With my limited time to use the rifles I cannot justify the high prices like the top of the line T/C rifles. I paid the most for my original Stainless Omega when they were just new and personally I like my CVA Optima Elite better. CVA has definately raised the quality a lot.

To answer the question about the CVA improvement: The biggest thing is the Bergara barrel addition. Once that they started making a very quality barrel the rifles were much more attractive to me. The fit and finish has also improved in my opinion. My expensive Omega has a flimsy stock that did not fit the action properly and required a lot of work to get it right. The underlug at the front was loose and the screw could not be tightened enough to make it solid without metal work. Now that has not happened with the CVA. It is well fitted as received.

What has improved on CVA?

Basically the entire company has improved IMO.

Bergara barrel
QRBP
Excellent triggers
User friendly shaped stocks
Adjustable triggers on a couple models

Their whole entire 2010 line up i own and each of them are of excellent quality, even my $220 Wolf. I haven't had one bit of trouble from these rifles.

Hey Jon, Are their a lot of echos in your area?
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Urraco

frontier gander said:

What has improved on CVA?

Basically the entire company has improved IMO.

Bergara barrel
QRBP
Excellent triggers
User friendly shaped stocks
Adjustable triggers on a couple models

Their whole entire 2010 line up i own and each of them are of excellent quality, even my $220 Wolf. I haven't had one bit of trouble from these rifles.

Click to expand...

Boy, you can say that again. Oh, you did! :lol:

T/C came out with a NEW Impact muzzleloader this year, what a PIECE of SH...WORK that is, and at around $250 to $300. The NEW 2010 CVA entry level Wolf can be had for $169, a NOS blued Bergara barreled Accura for $200, a 416 Stainless 2010 Optima for $216, a NOS 416 Stainless Bergara barreled Accura for $250. All of the CVA's are much better rifes, for less money. The Bergara barreled 416 SS/Synthetic stocked Apex can be had for $472 + FFL & SH, the premium switch barrel tip-up rifle on the Market IMO.

The only IMPACT, the Impact is going to have on T/C, is a negative one IMO. The Triumph is a great shooting rifle, but without a real stainless option, and a stock I don't care for, I'll never own one. The Omega has had a great run, as well as the Encore. All of these rifles will find you digging much deeper in your pocket, for less rifle. WHY should anybody have to buy a trigger kit, spring kit, 1x or 2x hinge pins to get a $900+ rifle to lock up and shoot solid? The QLA being nearly an inch long on the T/C's are another reason I don't like them.

Knight has got a very hard row to hoe, and their re-entry to the market will either make them, or break them. At least they got a deal with Green Mountain to make their barrels, a very good thing. Knight has to let go of the models that brought them down in the first place. The management was far more responsible than the poorly though out half-baked rifles IMO. The models that need to go IMO, would include the Revolution/II, KRB7, Vision, Shadow. These rifles are all capable of shooting very well with the GM barrels, however the mechanics are some real "Engineering Marvels" (sarcasm added).

Those Bergara barrels are the best quality OEM production barrels in the industry at the moment, IMO. The barrel is the most important part of the rifle, then add a great trigger, very good breeching system, great synthetic stocks, and the best QRBP, CVA has several things to be happy about.

Hopefully Knight can work the kinks out of the Knight Disc Ultimate Slam, and Improve on the KP-1 platform. A QR breech plug design for the KP-1, as well as a totally NEW tip-up designed muzzleloader only rifle. Of course this will all have to be done to compete with the NEW 2010 quality CVA line up, a very challenging task that may be impossible at this point.

The best thing going for them is that people are "Brand Loyal", the only thing keeping T/C in the game at the moment as well. Don't get me wrong, all my muzzleloaders were built in the US, and are quality. But, the speed and direction CVA is going in, it will only be a matter of time before the biased "brand loyal" crowd realizes that CVA is playing "hardball", and at the Major League Level as well. You will be hard pressed in 2010, to find a better production muzzleloader than what CVA is currently putting out, at even twice the price.

My prediction is that CVA will be eating T/C's lunch in less than 2 years. Lets face it, the muzzleloader market has been pretty well saturated. The only companies that will be able to stay in the game are the ones with truely good innovations, like better barrels, triggers, breech plugs, stocks.

I do not personally own, nor have never owned a CVA rifle, but I know people who do. I own 3 Whites, 6 Knights, 3 H&R/NEF's and a T/C. I have shot and compared these newer rifles to the Knight's and T/C's. If CVA comes out with a brown laminate stock for the Apex, there will be no holding me back. If you haven't looked at a CVA lately, take a look at the 2010 rifle line-up and accessories, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. And you don't have to pay Shockey, Waddell or the Drury's a thing to own one. Maybe Raglin! :lol:

Like I said, I wish Knight well. I think this is a whole new market than it once was.

I hunt exclusively with muzzle loaders now, so yes a quality gun makes a huge difference vs just a seasonal thing to me.....excluding dangerous game which i seldom hunt.

My Accura shot so well that it was part of my motivation to buy a Knight/GM and only focus now on higher quality muzzle loaders. CVA is currently doing a fine job and i hope the new Knight owners will also.

They still need to offer guns that will attract "entry level" buyers though. Improving the Shadow would be a good start in that area and encourage customer loyalty when/if they want a higher end model.

I cant wait to see an Ultimate Slam in production on the high end with a good factory NFPJ system. Hopefully not just in 50cal either.

One other thing ive seen in the past 2 days is that CVA WILL Shoot excellent with 150gr magnum charges. I have been shooting them today before the sun broke out and accuracy was just simply amazing. I dont know if its the new rifling design or what, but i am normally a 100 grain and below shooter, I will have at least one rifle this year with a mag load.

CVA needs to quit remakeing their guns every year or two. They keep changing a product so that 1 year it comes with a Bergara barrel and the nxt year it doesn't. Take the Accura snd Optima they finally made a nice rifle and within a couple of years they start redesigning it. TC's Encore stays basically the same and if CVA would ever get in their head to make a nice rifle and leave it alone instead of making something that is outdated every year which IMO makes them seem cheap.

Well I hope the new Knight mangement is a little more on the ball than the last crew. Those fools discontinued the most accurate,best handling inline i ever shot, the Disc Elite. I know of no one who owned one that couldnt get it to shoot light out. In a lapse of stupidity i sold mine to a buddy when i needed some cash and regret it. Even though i hunt with mostly traditional gear now I still bring out an inline once in a while. And you guys have convinced me to take a look at the new CVA's

johnpb said:

CVA needs to quit remakeing their guns every year or two. They keep changing a product so that 1 year it comes with a Bergara barrel and the nxt year it doesn't. Take the Accura snd Optima they finally made a nice rifle and within a couple of years they start redesigning it. TC's Encore stays basically the same and if CVA would ever get in their head to make a nice rifle and leave it alone instead of making something that is outdated every year which IMO makes them seem cheap.

Click to expand...

Thats a good thing, making changes to rifles that need tweaking in some areas, thats why they do that. A lot of rifle companies out there dont do that, what you get is what you get. The Apex replaces the Optima Elite which was a huge update IMO. The new optima and wolf are huge improvements over the older models. The Accura though is what changed their quality and put a good taste back into the market.

I have to agree about a CVA improving, I have not heard of one blowing up for a long time. They are better looking than they used to be to. Price went up right a long with the quality, so it still comes down to getting what you pay for.

I beleive that if Knight wants to be profitable and hang around for a while then they need to offer a quality break action at a reasonable price with a fully adjustable trigger. Going back to their roots with the bolt action disk guns but offer them stock with the lehigh plugs. Which would eliminate the disks. Most of all they need to target the new buyers, Brand loyal people alone can not keep their doors open.

I would like to see a high end NFPJ break action carbine AFTER they get things going well. I took out the ole LK93 54 today just for about a dozen shots and even though it was hot i had fun.

She is a great "entry level" rifle that doesnt make too many sacrifices in quality. Adjustable trigger, light and really accurate with a good variety of bullets and powder.

BTW the prototype Ultimate Slam has an improved NFPJ but im not sure how it compares to the Lehigh. Tony Bridges really seems to like his but......

Great feedback guys, thanks!!

Although there is still not much I can put to press right now, I will say you can count on the following:

1) Our goal is 100% Made in the USA. Not just mostly made in the USA, but entirely made in the USA.

2) As long as Green Mountain can continue to offer top notch quality and competitive pricing, that partership will remain. Those guys really know how to make a great shooting product and we are excited about that future.

3) We realize the industry has changed and that it is a "saturated" market. (using someone else's words) That is why we strategically are not planning on going "head to head" with some other manufacturers and trying to become the largest volume seller of muzzleloaders. That's not our goal. Sure, we have to be profitable. If we're not, then our life will be short and we can't provide a living for our employees. However, our goal is to provide THE most accurate, HIGHEST quality shooting muzzleloader in the industry, not to sell more guns than anyone else. We may not be the prettiest, we may not have high paid actors promoting our product, but what we will have is a product that you can buy at a price you can afford when that animal of a lifetime steps in front of you. That's what I want as a hunter, and that's what I feel most hunters want.

4) We strive to have unmatched customer service. This is a process, especially when we are still in the infant stages but I assure you we have assembled a team to help our gun owners with any problem they may have. Whether it's a simple problem or a complex problem, give us a call and we'll be there for you.....

5) We will announce as soon as possible our plans for gun manufacturing. We will take our time to make sure that when we hit the market, we have a product that YOU deserve. We just can't put a timeline on quality.

We are working daily on our website, so keep checking us out for great products and specials !!

Thanks again for all of the feedback! God Bless and Happy Hunting.

Knightman

Thanks for the update. I have 4 Knight rifles, all DISCs of some form. Never know, I may have room for another. I just can't see myself hunting with another. I even bought my brother 2.

Yes, thanks. Its good to see you on here.
Art
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Body science

Knight Man

You know the suspense of what the first release will be is killing some of us... right?

Come on just a hint. :lol: