.40 vs .45 ?

[JeffB1961]

for folks that can legally hunt with a .357 or larger muzzleloader projectile , how does .40 vs .45 compare to each other using muzzleloaders ? how about in availability of consumables like sabots and bullets ? is there a decent range of bullets that typically work well for both 40 and 45 ? does using sabots negate the accuracy benefits of going smaller than .50 ? is it kind of necessary to go full bore to get the most accuracy from them ? and of course whats a decent (cheap) entry ML for each of these calibers ?

 

[peteo]

I wish Illinois would allow 40 cal. The 275-300 gr 40's bullet to bore have a better BC . Smaller diameter and a longer length give it the advantage.
A .400 195 gr Barnes or a .400 200gr Hornady in a harvestor 45 light blue perform well also. Sabots require a wait time for next shot,

 

[GM54-120]

40 means you will buy nearly all your bullets from custom vendors like Fury/ASG/Pittman and they will all need a sizing die. You can gain a lot of velocity for the amount of powder used.

45 means you can still shoot most of them bullets but probably 100-200fps slower until you get into super magnum loads like the Paramount is rated to handle. The sabot becomes the weak link when you start pushing the limits.

 

[JeffB1961]

is there a monoflex or TEZ or some similar performing all or mostly copper bullet that shoots good with a sabot in the 40 and 45 cal MLs ?

 

[MrTom]

My Kodiak .45 loves the Barnes Expanders at 195 grains with 63 weighed grains [90 by volume] of Bh209.

The .45 bullet line-up is a lot healthier than the .40 bullets selection, unless, as mentioned, you step into the custom bullet market or start using cast lead.

 

[GM54-120]

is there a monoflex or TEZ or some similar performing all or mostly copper bullet that shoots good with a sabot in the 40 and 45 cal MLs ?

Barnes has a 40cal Expander MZ, Lehigh has a couple 40s and Cutting Edge has 1 or 2 40cal monolithic bullets. Might be rough getting hard monos to shoot easily in a 40cal smoker. Thin jacket and soft lead core it way easy for me.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

is there a monoflex or TEZ or some similar performing all or mostly copper bullet that shoots good with a sabot in the 40 and 45 cal MLs ?

I dont think anyone makes a sabot for a .40 ML yet.

 

[JeffB1961]

i hadn't thought of that at all MM ! lol . for me that eliminates 40 and 45 seems to have more guns available anyhow . 40 seems to be mostly cva and i found very few others . i wouldn't trust a cva 40-45 bore going by what i've read here ....... is this any good ?
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...vapr-xt-45-cal-black-stock-cerakote-r74115040
or does a person really have to jump to the knight ultralite or woodmans patriot to benefit from the smaller caliber and faster twist ?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

i hadn't thought of that at all MM ! lol . for me that eliminates 40 and 45 seems to have more guns available anyhow . 40 seems to be mostly cva and i found very few others . i wouldn't trust a cva 40-45 bore going by what i've read here ....... is this any good ?
https://muzzle-loaders.com/collecti...vapr-xt-45-cal-black-stock-cerakote-r74115040
or does a person really have to jump to the knight ultralite or woodmans patriot to benefit from the smaller caliber and faster twist ?

CVA and Traditions are both making .45s with faster twists. But not the same quality of the Woodman and Knight imho.

What bullet does Knight sell to shoot in the .40Peregrine?

 

[GM54-120]

What bullet does Knight sell to shoot in the .40Peregrine?

Looked like a Fury.

 

[GM54-120]

The Traditions 45 1-20s might shoot. At $280 its worth trying. Get some orings to seal the primer. If it shoots fine then get the plug modded for a vent liner.

 

[.45er]

for folks that can legally hunt with a .357 or larger muzzleloader projectile , how does .40 vs .45 compare to each other using muzzleloaders ? how about in availability of consumables like sabots and bullets ? is there a decent range of bullets that typically work well for both 40 and 45 ? does using sabots negate the accuracy benefits of going smaller than .50 ? is it kind of necessary to go full bore to get the most accuracy from them ? and of course whats a decent (cheap) entry ML for each of these calibers ?

Unless i'm shooting beyond 100 yards I prefer a lighter/faster .40 in sabot vs. a full .45. Better SD using .40's.

 

[GM54-120]

Pretty sure most of the fast 45s could shoot upto a 40cal 250gr Fury in a sabot without a whole lotta trouble. I think the last time i checked into it even a 1-28 will handle the 240gr Fury but 1-24 or faster was a better choice.

If i had not blown the $289 on the Ulite barrel i would probably checkout the Traditions for just $280. It might be a decent little sabot or conical shooter. What we dont know is the land size. If its between .4507-.4509 then it might take bullets sized with a cheap Lee sizing kit.

I guess what im trying to say is.................. WE STILL NEED A GUINEA PIG!!!!

 

[CatamountRob]

I guess what im trying to say is.................. WE STILL NEED A GUINEA PIG!!!!

I would have already been the Guinea pig if the Barnes 195 gr MZ bullets were available anywhere in the last few months.
I’d buy one after the holidays but now the lousy little range I belong to is closed until spring.

 

[JeffB1961]

i wish CVA realised how much they're screwing themselves with their built for PB BS !

 

[GM54-120]

I really hope Traditions did the whole 45cal thing a little better than CVA. They got the twist right so thats a good sign. To me its almost a game changer because it can shoot so many bullet options well and not be a brick to carry all day. Super easy to load up for kids with light loads and a 180gr or 200gr XTP.....all for under $300

Same thing im doing with the barrel kit....shave off them ounces without losing anything else within the distance i can shoot. Not bench shooting but actual hunting.

 

[JeffB1961]

how is the accuracy of their 50s compared to cva and knight ? seems like the optima and the wolf are the only safe cva's to buy ATM

 

[TiggerLueb]

I have a group that I hunt with that is exclusively 50 caliber shooters. They do so because “you can’t find the stuff for smaller calibers.”
Male Bovine Fecal Matter! I have no problem finding 45 bullets, at times I use Harvester sabots with 10 mm bullets. This group also swears by 10 mm Glock pistols for hunting.

 

[GM54-120]

I never had problems getting 45cal ML stuff either but i also knew where to look. Most of the online places usually have the Harvester sabots and at least the Hornady SST or Barnes with MMP sabots.

When it comes to lead though the 45 just stomps the 50cal in bullet options. The amount of 451-458 lead molds available is much larger than 50cal. All you need are a couple cheap Lee sizing dies and the molds if you already cast. Kinda funny that the smallest conical i shoot is 100gr heavier than the typical 240-250gr 50cal sabot load and its just as lethal with less powder needed.

Its really the ultimate Keep It Simple Stupid load that will more or less work with whatever powder you can get your hands on.

 

[JeffB1961]

is the copper stuff too hard or could the .451 barns TEZ 250 and 290 be shot in a .45 without the sabot ? or the .458 monoflex ?
how about the copper jacketed XTP 250 grn. .452 ?