Bear Creek Ballistics 280 gr. bullet

[Mnt monkey]

Evening redear, all of that sounds reasonable to me I would try it and see if it helps your groups,a wool wad is cheap , my bases on the light blue with 57 grains were okay and I've read of another gentleman that shot 60 grains of 4198 , my 450 -457 Wilson barrel really liked 55 and 55.5 grains consistent half-inch groups with Pittman's and furys 250s,this gun will throw these sabots three-in-a-row almost within a foot of each out on the ground ,I guess there's no such thing as looking for consistency and how the that sabot stack up on the ground but it almost seems like there's a correlation sometimes to an accurate load and where it deposits the sabot on a continuous basis maybe I'm just goofy for noticing that

 

[Sideshow]

Evening redear, all of that sounds reasonable to me I would try it and see if it helps your groups,a wool wad is cheap , my bases on the light blue with 57 grains were okay and I've read of another gentleman that shot 60 grains of 4198 , my 450 -457 Wilson barrel really liked 55 and 55.5 grains consistent half-inch groups with Pittman's and furys 250s,this gun will throw these sabots three-in-a-row almost within a foot of each out on the ground ,I guess there's no such thing as looking for consistency and how the that sabot stack up on the ground but it almost seems like there's a correlation sometimes to an accurate load and where it deposits the sabot on a continuous basis maybe I'm just goofy for noticing that

No that stacking a pile is a good thing .

 

[Mnt monkey]

I guess there's a lot of little things you notice if you just watch

 

[Sideshow]

I guess there's a lot of little things you notice if you just watch

And every one of those "little things" can be SO important . FINE tuning is subtle .....

 

[Mnt monkey]

Almost sounds like a life philosophy doesn't it

 

[Sideshow]

Almost sounds like a life philosophy doesn't it

Kinda is !!! Lol !!!

 

[Ninering62]

IMO the 275gr 40cal will really be pushing the limit of what any current 45x40 sabot can handle. They are too short. No need to use a crushrib either. I can load a smooth 45x40 in my Pacnor that has .450 lands on the dot. Everything im reading and seeing says the CVA 45 bores are running larger.

Might want to call Harvester, word is...they got a new 45x40 sabot in the works.

Plz help me understand why the Fury (in this case) .402 Startip 2P 275gr would be pushing the limit of the sabot? And the bullets look pretty long & sleek w/high BC & for SML velocities, so I do not understand them being too short/ Or were you referring to the sabot itself being too short for that bullet? That I can understand. I also have no clue as to how they will fit in that Bergara 1:22 twist & if they will fit properly in the .4525 barrel. Something else I need to learn about is what Mtn Monkey brought up ( one of the numerous really good/really relevant points ) is in a climate like where we both live & sizing land rider bullets to fit with the proper bore tension & RR downforce loading them in a cool morn sized at .4525 ( FOR OUR PARAMOUNTS ) & in a mid-day high heat & humidity have that same sized bullet literally fall right down, or out of the barrel, will using a .402 dia bullet in a sabot alleviate all that & seal my super mag charges from really humid & damn air? And why is noone else addressing that issue? Us 2 can not be the only 2 living in this type of climate that shoot Ml's &/or SML's that are sizing full bore bullets that are experiencing the same physics issues & how they address that? I could not imagine sizing my bullets for the next days match or hunt in a 80-100* 80-90%RH afternoon, then the next morn, time to load my ML & the 1st bullet gets stuck/jammed tight & the BP has to be pulled & the bullet BEATEN OUT. SO NOT COOL! lol I had it happen to me when sizing my bullets in the morn & shot them that afternoon. I DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN!
Thanks again for your insight & expertise. Much appreciated.

 

[Ninering62]

Almost sounds like a life philosophy doesn't it

YES SIR! WHAT U SAID! WHAT SIDESHOW SAID! YEP!

 

[James Sparhawk]

You are overlooking the big picture. A bullet that is very light for caliber performs poorly over a broad impact velocity range. A 50cal 223gr PB is a horrible bullet when combined in that equation. You can not compare it to a 225gr 40cal bullet with a bonded .015" jacket. That 225gr 40cal bullet with a good ogive design will fly far far flatter too. Basically point and shoot to 200 yards or more. The 223gr PB will be falling like a rock from the sky.

How many softer lead 250gr or less bullets do you see offered in 50A&E?.....Virtually ZERO because they would perform so poorly even at those speeds. Why people would shoot bullets like that in a ML faster but not in a 50A&E or 500S&W is a mystery to me.

You just made a light turn on in my head. Thank you sir.

 

[James Sparhawk]

You are overlooking the big picture. A bullet that is very light for caliber performs poorly over a broad impact velocity range. A 50cal 223gr PB is a horrible bullet when combined in that equation. You can not compare it to a 225gr 40cal bullet with a bonded .015" jacket. That 225gr 40cal bullet with a good ogive design will fly far far flatter too. Basically point and shoot to 200 yards or more. The 223gr PB will be falling like a rock from the sky.

How many softer lead 250gr or less bullets do you see offered in 50A&E?.....Virtually ZERO because they would perform so poorly even at those speeds. Why people would shoot bullets like that in a ML faster but not in a 50A&E or 500S&W is a mystery to me.

Do you think a 320 gn Lee REAL conical wll shoot ok out of my TC Impact? I alreay bought the 250 gn mold, but have already been informed it shoots like crap out of a fast twist inline, so I am thinking the 320 should be heavy enough? My longest shooting range is 250 yards but most my shots at deer will be 150 and less.

 

[Sideshow]

Redear, go look at Richards posts on Hanks board. Shooting a 250gr 40cal Fury with modest amounts of 4198 he got awesome velocity and deadly accuracy. Its exactly what i believed all along. The additional bullet weight made 4198 come alive. I bet Reloder7 would also. No need to push it at warp speed or duplex. The increased BC and weight over a 200gr SST will offset any speed loss if there was any. The additional SD and bonded jacket will keep it together. Plus its about the same cost as a 200gr SST.

This is pretty well my premise for building a 40 instead of a 45 sml . The better bc bullets will carry the day just like the 410 white does 60gr lighter with a far slower start speed . A little thinking keeps ya out of pressure troubles being a bit conservative . Its definately a thinkers caliber . Basically an uncased 400 Whelen . Light bullets its a hot rod and heavier capable for anything in N. America if not almost anywhere .

 

[Mnt monkey]

Do you think the longer powder column is more finicky I haven't shot a 40 only forties in sabots,I wouldn't mind having a 40 and shooting blackhorn to but again that's new territory for me

 

[Sideshow]

Do you think the longer powder column is more finicky I haven't shot a 40 only forties in sabots,I wouldn't mind having a 40 and shooting blackhorn to but again that's new territory for me

Id say a bit and maybe not quite as efficent ?? IDK time will tell . Powder speed is really the biggest factor i see to really keep an eye on . Pressures build much quicker . For a 45 most will add a bit more . A 40 may require a powder change to stay safe climbing the velocity ladder . This is how it looks to me anyways especially with a little heavier bullets . I found a guy that will be doing traces for me . Dam good idea i think !!! Alot in print but i wanna KNOW . With bh209 i really dont foresee Any issues regarding pressures . SML is another story...... At the price of bh209 once i develop my loads i will be pretty well done with hunting loads . I Definately wont sit and continue to punch paper with it . I will develop sml loads to duplicate their preformance for practice . After that , Lets Party !!! Lol !!! A little exploration is in order !!!
I REALLY wish Bear Creek offered a 280gr or so in a 40cal . I believe id start dancing around !!! With bh209 that would be a LOAD !!!!

 

[GM54-120]

Plz help me understand why the Fury (in this case) .402 Startip 2P 275gr would be pushing the limit of the sabot?

A 275gr bullet is very long for the harvester light blue sabot. The petals are not long enough to offer good support. We really need a sabot with petals long enough to go slightly past the transition from bearing surface to ogive for best support and the bullet really does better with 50% or more bearing surface for its length.

Plus none of the 45x40 sabots were really made for bullet over 200gr. PR uses the MMP for his soft lead bullets upto 260gr. Those bullets obturate more in the sabot at ignition. They are not as hard on the sabot. Same kinda thing happens when shooting a cup/core and swap to a solid copper. Even though the cup/core shot fine the same weight solid copper is more temperamental when pushing the performance threshold.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I've had very good accuracy lately with the 250 Pittman 40 cal in the light blue sabot in a 1 in 20 twist barrel, if I slip a 250 Pittman down into the light blue Sabot the pettles come just slightly pass the straight bearing sidewall not much, almost even,and I agree that 275 must be a long bullet however I wonder if the actual bearing surface on the side wall isn't pretty close to the 250, if that bearing surface sidewall is just a little bit longer than the 250s to me it's worth trying , I might have to order some 275 just to experiment, I did not expect the 250 Pittman 40-cal in the light blue sabot to shoot as well as it has, it shot so well I'm just going to have to try the 275 in the light blue

 

[GM54-120]

Good example with the 250gr Fury. Now try to get the 240gr Cutting Edge to shoot with the same load.....Bet you cant That bullet munches sabots.

IF i was going to try a 40cal 275gr Fury it would be knurled and then you might need to use the light blue crushrib. First i would contact Dino and get the OAL, ogive length and bearing surface length. You also might need to drop down to a slightly slower powder like Reloder7.

 

[Mnt monkey]

I like those cutting-edge bullets but they blow sabots and turn sideways real quick you have to stay real mild and just shoot black horn with those

 

[Sideshow]

Good example with the 250gr Fury. Now try to get the 240gr Cutting Edge to shoot with the same load.....Bet you cant That bullet munches sabots.

IF i was going to try a 40cal 275gr Fury it would be knurled and then you might need to use the light blue crushrib. First i would contact Dino and get the OAL, ogive length and bearing surface length. You also might need to drop down to a slightly slower powder like Reloder7.

Smart.....

 

[Mnt monkey]

I got some reloader 7 I appreciate the advice

 

[GM54-120]

Reloder7 is a bit dirty but really easy on sabots. Cheap powder and goes bang easily. It never impressed me much with a 200gr bullet because it was getting close to pressure starvation. If you used more powder you got a bit more muzzle flash than i prefer but nothing awful. So my WAG is it should work better with a 250gr sabot load in the 45s.