My 50cal Full Bore Project

[chieffan]

What is the advantage of shooting a knurled bullet over a cast, sized bullet in a sabot?

 

[ENCORE50A]

What is the advantage of shooting a knurled bullet over a cast, sized bullet in a sabot?

The sabot is and has always been the weakest link.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Reelamin i have been following this thread . I admire you persistence. Have you already tried Thor bullets in your .50 ? I have a good friend Mark Miller he is a Knight distributor. He has gone down your road . A lot of the guns he sells are .50 Knight Mountaineers for guys hunting elk in Colorado . I spoke to him the other day and asked what bullet preformed the best. He told me Thors. Mark said he can get very close to the same accuracy with a .50 and a full bore Thor vs a .45 and a Parker BE. Mark said accuracy will start to fall off after 200 yards which i know that is exactly what you are fighting. Mark also bought a .50 adjustable sizing die for his Thors. Just curious if you have tried them.

 

[45-70]

best to go to heavy conical in a .50 to get accuracy past 200 , have a friend that did it with 550 and black powder using williams peep

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I completely agree Bob. If i remember correctly Reelamin did not want to go that route because of the trajectory.

 

[45-70]

that is true I remember now, but is easiest route master .

 

[mnoland30]

It seems to me that 1.5" at 100 yards is good enough. At 300 it would still be 4.5". Not an issue on an elk. I sight my rifle in at 150 meters.

I don't understand the fouled barrel thing you are experiencing. With Blackhorn, you don't need to clean after shooting. So foul the barrel and then start shooting for groups. Size your bullets for the fouled barrel. I shoot 777, so I run a damp patch, then a clean patch between either shot. All of your shots should either be in a clean barrel or a dirty barrel.

The problem I see, is terminal ballistics. My experience with bullets under 400 grains is that they don't penetrate. I shot a deer at 300 yds. once. No problem hitting it, but took 5 shots to kill it. I was shooting 340 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Centers. I shot a bull with a pure lead 400 gr. QT at 225 yards slightly angling away, and it only pentrated 1" into the heart, but expanded to over an inch. If I had missed the heart, I'd have lost the elk. Back then, I was shooting 150 grains of 777 powder. I've since dropped down to 115 gr. Buffalo hunters killed buffalo at 300 yards, so we should be able to kill an elk at that range. Frank Mayer, buffalo runner, used a .45-120 with English black powder and 550 gr. paper patched bullets at a bhn of around 11. I'm still looking for the perfect bullet, but I think that is probably the way to go.

With a range finder and adjustable scope (legal in NM) or adjustable ladder sight, trajectory isn't that big an issue.

 

[gemihur]

I've been a big fan of TC's Powerbelts. A full bore bullet with a gas sealing skirt that easily detaches in flight (I'd imagine)
Bullet weight is less compromised than sabot use.

 

[Chick]

I've been a big fan of TC's Powerbelts. A full bore bullet with a gas sealing skirt that easily detaches in flight (I'd imagine)
Bullet weight is less compromised than sabot use.
View attachment 3668

Thompson Center does not make Power Belt Bullets. All the T/C bullets use sabots. Power Belt Bullets are made by an independent company.

 

[gemihur]

You are correct, Sir, I stand corrected.
You know, after sighting it in, I never looked at the label.
But they work real good.

 

[GM54-120]

Buffalo hunters killed buffalo at 300 yards, so we should be able to kill an elk at that range

More like Buffalo killers than hunters. They could care less how far it ran as long as it died to deprive the natives of a food source. Most just wanted hides and skulls. Ethical hunting was hardly a thought at that time. I would wager many 100s of tons of meat went to waste.

Sounds to me like your choice of bullet construction had far more impact on your poor results than weight. A 325gr FTX will blow through an elk with a good broadside hit. Ive seen one travel through the full length of a deer. I do prefer big soft lead for some shooting but 400gr in a 50cal aint big. Its not all that big in a 45cal either.

Powerbelts have a major flaw. Load them hot enough for longer range and they hold up poorly when a close shot is offered. They may kill but penetration is poor when impact speed is high.

 

[gemihur]

More like Buffalo killers than hunters. They could care less how far it ran as long as it died to deprive the natives of a food source. Most just wanted hides and skulls. Ethical hunting was hardly a thought at that time. I would wager many 100s of tons of meat went to waste.

Sounds to me like your choice of bullet construction had far more impact on your poor results than weight. A 325gr FTX will blow through an elk with a good broadside hit. Ive seen one travel through the full length of a deer. I do prefer big soft lead for some shooting but 400gr in a 50cal aint big. Its not all that big in a 45cal either.

Powerbelts have a major flaw. Load them hot enough for longer range and they hold up poorly when a close shot is offered. They may kill but penetration is poor when impact speed is high.

Mine blew right through

 

[GM54-120]

Load and impact speed estimate?

For every 1 time i see your response ive seen 10 or more with poor penetration. There is a reason you dont see soft lead copper clad bullets that are light for caliber loaded in rounds like 50 Beowulf at similar speeds. You see far less of these complaints when velocity is reduced and PBs 348gr and larger are used. At 2 bucks a pop for the PB Plats and Aerolites its a pretty poor design.

You can buy a Speer 50cal 325gr HP that will smoke it for under 40cents a piece.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...ter-325-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-50

 

[gemihur]

I'l have to try some.
I'm not married to a given projectile
They look like some real saving$ https://redriverreloading.com/reloa.../162608-speer-50-caliber-500-325gr-hp-50.html
Different labeling on some boxes of Speer #4495 titled them as Plinkers.https://www.dowdlesports.com/Speer-50-325Grain-HP50_p_42246.html
That might have been why I didn't buy 'em
Thanks for the tip!
Now if you can make a recommendation where I can locate a Gonic resizing tool for standard .50 cal bullets that takes 'em down to .500" for use in my GA-93 50 cal

 

[GM54-120]

I looked all over for that tool a couple times. Its not easy to find. Best suggestion is get a .500 or .499 sizing die from Lee or NOE. A .499 you will be able to slowly enlarge it yourself pretty easy. The Lees will be a custom order and cheaper. The NOE is more but you can change $10 bushings for other sizes too. If you can get by with a .501 for soft lead, thats a standard Lee sizing die for under $25.

 

[gemihur]

Thank you for your recommendation.
I will keep my eyes peeled for a usable option, until then sabots and a 45 XTP.

 

[Satokad]

[QUOTE="GM54-120, post: 270445, member: 8562"

You can buy a Speer 50cal 325gr HP that will smoke it for under 40cents a piece.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...ter-325-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-50[/QUOTE]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but with this bullet in a 50 cal muzzleloader, would you just load it without anything over it (like a sabot shell)?
Thanks.

 

[dozer_xj]

For every 1 time i see your response ive seen 10 or more with poor penetration.

When they first came out we had poor performance with them on deer.

My dad went elk hunting in the fall of 17 in Colorado. A guy in camp shot a bull facing him at 30 yards. Dropped it, then it got up and ran off. They never did find it. The guide told my dad they loose more elk to power belts than they do with the archery shooters.

When my dad showed them he was using a .54 cal White with a huge lead bullet, they were pleased.

 

[GM54-120]

[QUOTE="GM54-120, post: 270445, member: 8562"

You can buy a Speer 50cal 325gr HP that will smoke it for under 40cents a piece.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...ter-325-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-50

Forgive me if this is a dumb question but with this bullet in a 50 cal muzzleloader, would you just load it without anything over it (like a sabot shell)?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]

This bullet like the topic of the thread (Fury Bullets) would need sizing unless you are lucky. Either knurled up or sized down. I shoot them in a 54x50 sabots. Its the same bullet Knight used to ship with their 54cals. Alexander Arms loads them to around 1900fps in 50 Beowulf but it was originally made for 50Action Express. Rainier offers something similar in 335gr and they are dirt cheap. Ive seen them for 20 cents apiece plus shipping on sale at Grafs or MidwayUSA. ATM they are 22 cents each.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...er-500-diameter-335-grain-plated-hollow-point

 

[Chick]

More like Buffalo killers than hunters. They could care less how far it ran as long as it died to deprive the natives of a food source. Most just wanted hides and skulls. Ethical hunting was hardly a thought at that time. I would wager many 100s of tons of meat went to waste.

The buffalo hunters were not trying to deprive the Indians. The railroad used hunters to feed the workers, initially. Later, once the trains started moving, they would be held up for up to 3 days, waiting on the buffalo herds to pass. The RR's answer was to employ the hunters to wipe out the buffalo herds, so as to not hold up the trains. The RR also had problems with the buffalo rubbing against the telegraph poles and pushing them over. True, the killing of the buffalo disrupted the lives of the Indians who depended on them, but that was not the reason for the killing. Each hunter had a number of skinners with him. A hunter might kill up to 50 buffalo a day, or, as many as his skinners could skin. The hides were piled on flat cars, and sent back to the city, to be tanned. Leather was a very important commodity of the day. Buffalo Robes were also stylish.