BH 209 and Conicals

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LarryBud

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Did a search and not much info. I know some have gad good success with BH 209 and big lead.

I'm shootig a 45 Super Disc with 465 and 495 grain Conicals. Currently using T7 3F but would like to try BH.

They don't publish load data for these heavy projectiles on Western's site. Are there any safey issues with too much pressure? I shoot 80 by Volume of T7 and I was thinking of BH in the 65 -80 by Volume range.

I don't mind swabbing at the range but it would be nice to have a 2nd shot in a hunting situation. I honestly don't think I can reload without swabbing, with a field rod after shooting at round of T7.
 

michiganmuzzy

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Ive shot 80grV of BH209 and a No Excuses 460 in my souper disc 45. It didnt do well. better at 75grV but still not great. I never got around to lighter loads as i found a 330gould works so well in it up to 85grV. I'd bet 45-70 is right and 65-70grV would work well.
 

Bruce Mattes

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Long range m-l target shooters are not using big loads to push heavy lead bullets out to 1000 yards.

So, the advice to go with the lower BH209 charges seems like good advice to me. Once a heavy bullet gets going, it tends to keep going for a while.

Especially, since we are talking about .45 caliber bullets, where a high BC bullet choice is available, should you choose one.

Talk to Idaholewis and see what he says. A .50 caliber wool wad and a good bullet with a lower than expected BH209 powder charge might be just the ticket for stellar accuracy.
 

michiganmuzzy

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I can shoot plenty of shots without swabbing or losing accuracy at 100 yards when shooting BH209 vs t7.
 
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GM54-120

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In a 45cal with that heavy of a bullet its a very good idea to not go over 80gr by volume. For ONE the fps starts to get pretty high and TWO your peak pressure starts climbing fast. It will eat up vent liners quickly. Paper patched and a bushing plug might handle more but to me the beauty of BH209 and conicals is the reduced amount you need. It dont take much to get a 460gr bullet moving 1300fps-1400fps.

52gr by weight and a 405gr bullet at 100% case volume is right at 27kpsi in a 45-100. 46gr by weight (84%) and a 500gr is right at 28kpsi at right around 1450fps. So i think its a good idea to look at that kind of data before using heavy loads of BH209 and large lead.
 
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LarryBud

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In a 45cal with that heavy of a bullet its a very good idea to not go over 80gr by volume. For ONE the fps starts to get pretty high and TWO your peak pressure starts climbing fast. It will eat up vent liners quickly. Paper patched and a bushing plug might handle more but to me the beauty of BH209 and conicals is the reduced amount you need. It dont take much to get a 460gr bullet moving 1300fps-1400fps.

52gr by weight and a 405gr bullet at 100% case volume is right at 27kpsi in a 45-100. 46gr by weight (84%) and a 500gr is right at 28kpsi at right around 1450fps. So i think its a good idea to look at that kind of data before using heavy loads of BH209 and large lead.
Thanks GM. How close is 28kpsi to maxing out a blued barrel from a Knight Super Disc. Personally, I don’t want to get close to the edge.

Looks like 60 to 65 grains by volume would be reasonable with a 495 grain bullet in a 45. Is my assumption reasonable?
 

GM54-120

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A Knight barrel should handle 28kpsi no sweat. GMB told me those barrels were inhouse proofed with 50kpsi loads without bursting. Guys shooting max loads of BH209 and a 300gr sabotless are right around 27-28kpsi or a little less. Its mainly hard on the plugs. Not so much the barrel.

Ive shot upto 80grV and the 460gr with no issues other than it kicks like a mule and munches vent liners faster. Get a Bestill bushing plug if you plan on shooting a lot of loads like that.
 

jcnull2305

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Okay, bear with me. My uptake is slow, and my reading comprehension is even slower...

I have a Traditions Vortek LDR that I got nearly three years ago. I have been using BH209 because T7 fouled it pretty badly. I have been trying sabots and power belt style bullets with varying levels of success, but I really want to use conicals over an OP wad and BH209. I like the heavier bullets, but I don't want to run into pressure issues with the Bee H two oh 9. The barrel is a 1:28 twist.

Where I hunt in Ohio, I don't get very long shots - 50 - 85 yards. Rare to go beyond 100. I have a bad habit of wanting velocity, but I'm seeing a therapist to get beyond that. I really want accuracy.

Does the collective have recommendations for bullet type, weight, and charge?

Thanks,
Jim
 

MrTom

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At that range I's do the 209 powder, a sabot and a decent bullet in the 250 to 300 grain range.....something like an XTP, Deep Curl. Both of these bullets offer superb terminal performance inside 200 yards. At the range you've mentioned I would develop loads for accuracy as you won't need to be blistering a bullet down range.
 

jcnull2305

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Thanks, Tom. I'll admit I was kinda stuck on the notion of using conicals, but I should be looking to use what's effective.
 

longbowelk

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I shoot my own cast conicals out of my CVA break open muzzleloader with 1/28 twist. No big deal. I get decent accuracy to 100 with open sights. During my load development I used a scope to find my best load, then removed it. Scope not legal in Colorado where I elk hunt. Conicals are a lot cheaper to shoot which means more shooting. Power belts are flaky and expensive. Sabots ok but not legal in Colorado. I shoot 400 to 460 grain from my 50 cal. Need more info on loads or where to get some let me know. You can cast your own. I'm a DIY guy and enjoy making mine.
 

GM54-120

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Does the collective have recommendations for bullet type, weight, and charge?
BH209 and a 50cal with conicals is slightly different. Larger bore so the pressure would be less than a 45cal using the same weight bullet. It may not build pressure as quickly also. You still wont want to go much over 80gr by volume though. Western says 100grV with a 440gr Powerbelt is a max load. They also list 50-90 Gov. with a 475gr@71gr by weight as max. Roughly 27.5kpsi
 

Hatchet Jack

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Okay, bear with me. My uptake is slow, and my reading comprehension is even slower...

I have a Traditions Vortek LDR that I got nearly three years ago. I have been using BH209 because T7 fouled it pretty badly. I have been trying sabots and power belt style bullets with varying levels of success, but I really want to use conicals over an OP wad and BH209. I like the heavier bullets, but I don't want to run into pressure issues with the Bee H two oh 9. The barrel is a 1:28 twist.

Where I hunt in Ohio, I don't get very long shots - 50 - 85 yards. Rare to go beyond 100. I have a bad habit of wanting velocity, but I'm seeing a therapist to get beyond that. I really want accuracy.

Does the collective have recommendations for bullet type, weight, and charge?

Thanks,
Jim
You may want to try the FPB bullet from Hornady. They are cheap enough to buy a few packages for testing. They come in 300 and 350 grain. Personally, I like the 350. Shoots good out of my 1-28 twist rifles. Here is a link below.

 

longbowelk

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BH209 and a 50cal with conicals is slightly different. Larger bore so the pressure would be less than a 45cal using the same weight bullet. It may not build pressure as quickly also. You still wont want to go much over 80gr by volume though. Western says 100grV with a 440gr Powerbelt is a max load. They also list 50-90 Gov. with a 475gr@71gr by weight as max. Roughly 27.5kpsi
I like 70 to 80 gr by volume. That's plenty of power with a heavy lead conical. Recoil not bad and makes the shooting more enjoyable to me.
 

jcnull2305

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Another wrinkle to this is that the Traditions Vortek has what they call a Speed Load System, Similar to T/C's QLA, which, after reading several threads here, is problematic. I've noted that other manufacturers besides T/C who've employed a similar thing have not had the accuracy issues as have T/C because of the way T/C bores their rifles. However, if I have a problem with conical accuracy in this rifle using overbore wads, looks like I'll either be using sabots, Sub Bases under Conicals, or cutting the counter bored section off.
 
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