Black Powder VS Pyrodex

[Bushfire]

If you're going to compare them for velocity at least use Swiss for the BP.

Never heard of any experienced person suggesting Pyrodex won't work in a caplock, think you may have got wires crossed with flintlocks.

 

[bluefishjim]

I have also been using pyrodex in my cap locks, I’ve never had an issue with the gun not going off.,

 

[Squint]

I know I know wagons circled lines drawn But eh I hear and read pyrodex bad fails to go off in cap locks, #11 percussion caps time infinity fail. Well "REAL" world been shooting it over a year now, I must be in a different class or dimension because I never had a failure from caps or pyrodex or the combination there of. Another wives tale just shot to snot. Pyrodex is as good as black if kept dry. You can not get it wet before use, then again black not as good wet either

As one who was around pyrodex in about 1976, 1978, that was all that was available and it worked just fine in my friend's 45 caliber percussion. We didn't know any different, pyrodex was almost brand new on the scene at that time. I still have some of that first powder, I think, in a container and I will try and see if it will work when I get out to the range.
Squint

 

[edmehlig]

My Whites in 45 always loved Pryodex P which enabled me to shoot without having to swab my bore. The only thing it was messy.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The only problem I ever had with Pyrodex is its tendency to absorb moisture from the air. I opened a container one day and noticed the whole thing had clumped together. I figured it had absorbed enough moisture to make it useless, so I threw out in front of my shop in some stuff I planned to throw away later. Somehow it got buried under some scrap metal. Months later I was doing some welding near that area and one of the sparks hit the container of Pyrodex. The explosion was so loud that my wife came out of the house to see if I was OK, and I was. However, I did have to check my pants to make sure I had not peed myself.

That experience taught me a lesson. Pyrodex can still work, even after it absorbs moisture and turns into a clump. It seems I had one giant "pellet" of Pyrodex that weighed almost a pound in that pile of scrap metal.

The moral of the story is, keep your Pyrodex in a dry location, and dispose of it properly if need be. Pouring it out in your yard might help fertilize the grass, but make sure you spread it out.

 

[Terry C]

I’ve had success with pyro and BP in cap guns. Just experiment with loads for best results.

 

[smokepolehall]

I have no testing data #'s. Just experience, i found the Pyro to be more clean up in bore. In the long run i found the pyro to vary on my loads. If i did not use the full bottle with-in about 8 months. It would change group sizes as it got older. I sometimes don't shoot that much in a year. I would end up dumping it for money loss. I tried it for several years. I just went back to holy black n i like it much better

 

[Ernbar]

Pyro was the only thing I could find when I started BP a couple of years ago. I used about 2-3 jugs before I finally located real BP locally. I bought BP to see what the difference was and honestly they both work the same IMO.
It actually stretches your buck cause you load less than using BP. I have 0 complaints about rust or anything else about using it.

 

[Ka'imiloa]

I've posted the following to other forums in the past, and perhaps even on this one, but it's worth repeating. Over 20 years ago I lived in Hawaii, where there was no BP at all, only Pyrodex. It is also very humid and anywhere near the coasts may have "salt air" due to the pounding surf. Pyrodex is incredibly
"hygroscopic", meaning it collects moisture. In Hawaii, if you leave a few grains on the bench and come back 10-15" later, there will be a little puddle of water where those grains were lying. It is also far more likely to rust your ML bore than BP is, for that reason. In Hawaii, I had to clean my fired barrel very well, and then clean it very well again within a week, or the bore would be rusting. I now live in Arizona, with very dry air most of the time, so the effect would usually be mitigated unless it was a rainy period.

First, to avoid hangfire or misfire with any powder, do what an old time taught me 65 years ago: pour in your powder, then hold the rifle upright and smack the breech end of your barrel with your palm X 3, to settle some of the powder down beneath the nipple.

Yes, Pyrodex is harder to ignite than BP, it needs a higher ignition temperature. I did a lot of testing with two .54 T/C Renegade rifles, which have a somewhat convoluted ignition channel that is extremely hard to get to and improve. Take my word for it, switching to Spitfire nipples is the answer if you ever have the least hangfires, or misfires, with Pyrodex. Plus Spitfire nipples can be found in all sorts of thread forms and oversize forms.

As far as Pyrodex having "less pressure", as someone wrote on this thread, which I must assume means volume to volume comparison to BP, then you are going to get less velocity from that volume of Pyrodex vs. BP. No need to test, if that is the case, it's just simple physics.

There is lots of information online via Google search as to the velocities provided by the BP grades and also Pyrodex, Triple 7, and newer BP substitutes. Keep in mind that "100 grains" of volume of powder A vs powder B may differ substantially in "oomph" due to burn characteristics as well as the weight-per-volume of that particular powder, and the mesh-size of the sifting screens the manufacturer chose to use in providing this or that grade of powder. For Example, 100 gr. volume of Swiss or Triple 7 or KIK or Goex are all going to weigh differently due to the density of the powder.

Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[CVA Fanboy]

Triple Seven rocks, and it cleans up super easy. I don't understand all the powder wars here.......I see no reason for it!

I am not attempting to start war, I want to learn, this Jim Shockley I hear about never seen it around my neck of the woods. I am reading it performs bottom scale, Actual Black Powder forget it around 200 mile round trip to get it. unless one likes paying hazmat fees on top of delivery fees.

 

[11th Corps]

I met a few guys who were training (NRA) shooters on muzzleloaders. They arrived at my gun club. They had inlines, and percussion guns and maybe a flinter. We got to talking about BP and I mentioned you could use synthetics like 777 or Pyrodex in a flintlock if you use real BP as a kicker load and in the pan. I could tell by the look on one of the instructors faces that he didn't believe it. I have done it myself when I was running out of real BP for my flintlocks.
But real BP is best for flintlocks.
For inlines or percussion guns either works.
I've shot thousands of rounds in percussion pistols and rifles with Pyrodex and 777.

 

[eekjellander]

I know I know wagons circled lines drawn But eh I hear and read pyrodex bad fails to go off in cap locks, #11 percussion caps time infinity fail. Well "REAL" world been shooting it over a year now, I must be in a different class or dimension because I never had a failure from caps or pyrodex or the combination there of. Another wives tale just shot to snot. Pyrodex is as good as black if kept dry. You can not get it wet before use, then again black not as good wet either

But dry black out and shoot ,not so with pyrodex ,leave the lid off and it's good for fertilizer !/Ed

 

[BBGun]

I am not attempting to start war, I want to learn, this Jim Shockley I hear about never seen it around my neck of the woods. I am reading it performs bottom scale, Actual Black Powder forget it around 200 mile round trip to get it. unless one likes paying hazmat fees on top of delivery fees.

I think it's been discontinued.

 

[Squint]

I am not attempting to start war, I want to learn, this Jim Shockley I hear about never seen it around my neck of the woods. I am reading it performs bottom scale, Actual Black Powder forget it around 200 mile round trip to get it. unless one likes paying hazmat fees on top of delivery fees.

About a year ago I went to a gun store that handled powder and such and was supposed to have some black and he didn't, the only thing he had was Jim Shockley and he said that's all he sold. For muzzleloaders. I've tried a lot of things, but the reason I wanted the black was for my Flintlock. He claimed shockley's powder would work in a Flintlock, so I did buy a pound and in a few days I was able to get out to the range and try it out. Only shot twice and I was using 4f for pan primer powder and they both shot, the first one was a slight Hang Fire, the second one quite noticeable, still probably only one second. I'm sure a duplex load with a little black in back of it would make it work just fine, but I do have enough black at this time and I was just curious. I do use triple seven in my percussions with very good results I've never tried it in my Flintlock, something I will do this summer and I will chronograph at the same time. In the flintlock I shoot 55 grains in a 50. In my percussions .50 I shoot 45 grains of triple seven. I think it figures out about the Same by recoil but I will chronograph.
Squint

 

[deerstalkert]

the age old saying "keep yer powder dry" still applies, and double for 777 and triple for pyrodex.
a friend gave me a couple pounds of 777 and I got a bottle of pyrodex, along with a 50-50 box of pellets in some unholy deal. came with a cva magnum inline. the pyrodex was the only powder used in the inline ever. that barrel was a poster shot for atherosclerosis. it was a 50 with about a 22 hole centered full length of the bore of rust. cleaned it up and that sucker still shoots great.
the box of pellets i had sitting in a shed and they sucked up moisture so bad the only way to ignite it was with a torch.
i moved it into a refrigerator in the shop and it sucked the moisture out. they will ignite with a 209 now.
i have only fired maybe 20 shots with 777 and was inpressed with the power and easier cleaning . some years ago my shooting partner and i chrono'ed some shots. same conical, patch, and cap, just switched powder using the same weight. seems that the 777 was 75-90 fps faster than the holy black, and the pyro was the same amount less.

 

[CVA Fanboy]

About a year ago I went to a gun store that handled powder and such and was supposed to have some black and he didn't, the only thing he had was Jim Shockley and he said that's all he sold. For muzzleloaders. I've tried a lot of things, but the reason I wanted the black was for my Flintlock. He claimed shockley's powder would work in a Flintlock, so I did buy a pound and in a few days I was able to get out to the range and try it out. Only shot twice and I was using 4f for pan primer powder and they both shot, the first one was a slight Hang Fire, the second one quite noticeable, still probably only one second. I'm sure a duplex load with a little black in back of it would make it work just fine, but I do have enough black at this time and I was just curious. I do use triple seven in my percussions with very good results I've never tried it in my Flintlock, something I will do this summer and I will chronograph at the same time. In the flintlock I shoot 55 grains in a 50. In my percussions .50 I shoot 45 grains of triple seven. I think it figures out about the Same by recoil but I will chronograph.
Squint

understandable, flints without 4f for flash, difficult to shoot

 

[deerstalkert]

i have never experienced any difficulty shooting my flintlocks using the same powder as goes down the bore. i don't think i have used 4f in 40 years. i have one rifle you don't want to stand on the vent side when it discharges. the vent is so large it self primes with 3f.

 

[stubshaft]

For many years REAL BP was unobtanium where I live. To this day Powder Valley refuses to ship to Hawaii. That being said, I had no choice but to use subs. I am old enough to still have some P and RS in square cardboard cans. I was able to buy a couple of pounds of 3F and used duplex loads (5 grains real BP under a charge of pyrodex) in my flinchlocks and it does shoot well. But, it is a PAIN to load.

Within the last 8 years, I have been able to get real BP from a local source and can wholeheartedly say that I prefer it to ANY sub!

 

[trlrider10]

For the last 6 years I have used T7 in my personal percussion cap rifles. 1st with 2F, the last 3 years with 3F. The way I treat the barrels on our competition rifles, our son can shoot 80 to 100 rounds without swabbing. It takes 5 to 6 patches to come clean.
Several of our club members have seen this and now switched to Triple 7 3F and have had similar results. The only time we have had issues is a new batch of nipples that came with smaller fire holes then what we normally used. Now I resize ever nipple we purchase and no issues.
True BP is extremely expensive to acquire here, and considering how much our youth shooters go thru each year, the T7 is a winner ever time.
FYI: 7 bucks, 9 does in the freezer over the years from the same competition rifle.

 

[jd24.5.48]

I have never used real BP. When I started hunting with a muzzleloader in the 90s we used pyrodex rs. We, meaning my dad and myself were shooting CVA sidelock rifles. Never ever had a misfire while out hunting! We definitely had a few hang fires while at the range! That was due to our cleaning process while at the range! With that being said, the only misfire that I've ever had while hunting was due to a 209 muzzleloader primer that misfired for whatever reason! It just snapped and didn't ignite the pyrodex! I don't remember the brand name but they were new caps! Next cap went BOOM!