Black Powder vs Substitutes

[Cannonball1]

This was shot with a 45 cal. traditional Leman Trade Rifle, black powder

 

[MLN1963]

What a bruiser!

 

[Spitfire1]

Nothing wrong with black powder , it helped fill my freezers for years now !

 

[exMember]

gorgeous buck!  How many points is that? Looks like a 6x3?

 

[Cannonball1]

That old buck was a 2 X 5, western count (browe tines don't count), 32" wide and it was as heavy horned as it looks.  My wife shot it at 100 yards, one shot, slow twist 45 cal. Green River Barrel, not a Green Mountain, but a GRRW to you old timers.  A barrel I had in the basement for years before making it into a gun.   A 32 cal. saboted slug that had just enough weight to make it legal.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Actually, a 2x5 western count would be a 5 point. A really silly system, but it's what it is.

Back east they'd call it a 7 point. Just as silly.

Calling it a 2x5 tells us exactly what it is, but brow tines should be counted.

 

[Cannonball1]

Actually  back East it would be called a 9 point.  Brow tines do count.  I shot one a couple of years ago that had brow tines over 10" long.  It wasn't anything exceptional, but scored 175 because of the brow tines.  I almost passed the deer up, because the outside width was only 27" wide 3 X 5 western or 10 point eastern.

 

[patocazador]

I see this thread has changed to a deer scoring one. So, I'll give my 2 cents. I think the whole deal of typical/non-typical is a bunch of crap. Other than giving a footnote to the score, it robs the deer of what it grew. All scores should be gross scores with no deductions with an asterisk to show that it was typical if that's the case. Every sticker, every drop tine should be counted as long as it's an inch long.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Yes, everything is counted back east. I'm from Mass. I guess that makes more sense than the western way which makes no sense to me

How does calling a 2x5 a 5 point tell what the deer/elk is? Really dumb whoever started that.

 

[Cannonball1]

I have to agree, but every body out west usually says 3x4, 2x3, 4x4 etc. anyway, but being a typical type of guy, I have to disagree about the typical vs non-typical B&C count being a bunch of crap.  I would a lot sooner have a typical spread of 180, than a very unusual non-typical spread of 200 and what is this stuff about eastern count including the brow tines.  I wished they would count them out west for bragging rights.  A ten point sounds a lot more impressive than a 4x4 with eye guards.

 

[Muley Hunter]

My dad was never into trophy hunting. He would never talk about kills, but just the hunt itself. He taught me all I know about hunting, and the trophy part rubbed off on me too.

I have no bias about trophy hunters. They all have a right to hunt anyway they want. I'm glad I don't have that kind of pressure put on myself. I enjoy my hunts for the hunt itself, and I don't have to get a trophy to have a successful hunt. It makes it a lot more enjoyable.

I only look at antlers to make sure it's legal. Other than that. They're just antlers to me. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. So, i've shot what some might call a trophy. I didn't find it anymore exciting than shooting a smaller buck/bull.

I understand how it can be a thrill though. We're all different.

 

[inline50]

VERY nice deer you bagged there cannonball :!:    
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Most hunters will venture into the "trophy stage" at some point in their hunting life... but when you really think of it, they do so because it "raises-the-bar" by providing a greater challenge.  A "trophy" is clearly in the eye of the beholder though.  With some of today's home-grown, miracle-grow antlers, the official score does not carry the braggin' weight it once did.  I am by no means the skilled hunters as many are on this forum, so every tag I fill is a trophy.    

 

[patocazador]

I have to agree, but every body out west usually says 3x4, 2x3, 4x4 etc. anyway, but being a typical type of guy, I have to disagree about the typical vs non-typical B&C count being a bunch of crap.  I would a lot sooner have a typical spread of 180, than a very unusual non-typical spread of 200 and what is this stuff about eastern count including the brow tines.  I wished they would count them out west for bragging rights.  A ten point sounds a lot more impressive than a 4x4 with eye guards.

Typical vs. non-typical is an individual preference. A typical shouldn't get penalized if it's a 9 point by deducting the extra point on one side. It deserves every inch it grew. I just think every deer should be given its gross score and do away with deductions. Net scores should be eliminated from all record charts.:twisted:

 

[ericcosh]

I have to agree, but every body out west usually says 3x4, 2x3, 4x4 etc. anyway, but being a typical type of guy, I have to disagree about the typical vs non-typical B&C count being a bunch of crap.  I would a lot sooner have a typical spread of 180, than a very unusual non-typical spread of 200 and what is this stuff about eastern count including the brow tines.  I wished they would count them out west for bragging rights.  A ten point sounds a lot more impressive than a 4x4 with eye guards.

Typical vs. non-typical is an individual preference. A typical shouldn't get penalized if it's a 9 point by deducting the extra point on one side. It deserves every inch it grew. I just think every deer should be given its gross score and do away with deductions. Net scores should be eliminated from all record charts.:twisted:

There is a very simple solution, don't put your deer in the books that have those rules. For me personally, I like shooting trophy deer but couldn't care less what the "books" have to say about it. But, I respect that it is their books and their rules so I don't seek to change them.

 

[Cannonball1]

Muley,  My Dad was never into trophy hunting either.  The bug hit me many years ago when I shot a real trophy and soon found that when you are trophy hunting, you also have more hunting experiences in the mountains, especially when you have kids that can hunt with you.  Last year my son drew the Paunsagunt Unit in Utah.  We hunted the whole season and went home empty handed, because he had set his sights set on a 200 class buck, and he came very close to making that happen.  We could have gone home opening day if he would have settled for something less.  The time we had together was much more important to us than a deer.  Even with the scarcity of Mule deer in Utah, if a person wanted a real small deer, they should be able to shoot one opening day of the ML hunt.  Shoot one deer and you go home.  Like you, it's more the experience than the animal, but unlike you I get darn excited when I have a chance at a real trophy and I don't get excited about shooting a smaller deer.  Don't insult me with shooting a doe, but that's just in Utah.  I do understand the whitetail problem where a doe needs to be harvested.

 

[Spitfire1]

Agree with Pete on the trophy hunting , I don't even take pictures of the animals I've hunted.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Muley,  My Dad was never into trophy hunting either.  The bug hit me many years ago when I shot a real trophy and soon found that when you are trophy hunting, you also have more hunting experiences in the mountains, especially when you have kids that can hunt with you.  Last year my son drew the Paunsagunt Unit in Utah.  We hunted the whole season and went home empty handed, because he had set his sights set on a 200 class buck, and he came very close to making that happen.  We could have gone home opening day if he would have settled for something less.  The time we had together was much more important to us than a deer.  Even with the scarcity of Mule deer in Utah, if a person wanted a real small deer, they should be able to shoot one opening day of the ML hunt.  Shoot one deer and you go home.  Like you, it's more the experience than the animal, but unlike you I get darn excited when I have a chance at a real trophy and I don't get excited about shooting a smaller deer.  Don't insult me with shooting a doe, but that's just in Utah.  I do understand the whitetail problem where a doe needs to be harvested.

 Yes, what you're doing is what I did with my dad. I really miss hunting with him, and truth be told. I've never hunted with anybody else. I came close with Jon, but I didn't hunt that year. Maybe in the future.

Don't get me wrong though. Even though i'm a meat hunter. I want a challenge, and I want to hunt the whole hunt. I always go after a mature animal, because it has more meat. So, even though i'm not concerned with the antlers. I am concerned with the body. More meat is always better. 

 

[Blacksheep]

Folks,

The mag spark issue has I believe been fixed.  I had the exact same issue Frontier had in that I had a Traditions and used the mag-spark and cci m primers and on about the 8th round it roughly split at the bolster.

However the new ones are completely different the tops of the new ones will not fit the new bottom ones.  I have one on my Traditions Deer Hunter its lasted thru about 3 range sessions using 80 gr of MZ and CCI inline primers.

Needless to say ignition is about as instantaneous as can be.

 

[patocazador]

 the tops of the new ones will not fit the new bottom ones.

 ??????  I guess you meant something else.

 

[Spitfire1]

Least we think we know what he meant Pato :lol: