Blackhorn 209 - Volume or Weight?

[Boreal]

Earlier this week I was working on a load for one of my guns. I measured out 120 grains into a few Blackhorn tubes. I shot those and than wanted to drop the load to about 110 grains. This time I weighed the loads out on my Lyman DPS powder scale. I figured 77 by weight should be 110 grains by volume. I measured out 78 grains and dumped it into the Blackhorn tube. To my surprise it only filled the tube to 100 grains. I filled the tube to 120 grains and dumped it on my scale and it weighed 96.5 grains. 120 grs/v should be 84 grs/w. I poured the Blackhorn into the tubes with a funnel. I didn't compress them. My Lyman scale was warmed up and calibrated before I threw any loads. I'm new to Blackhorn so what am I doing wrong?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

probably nothing. Measure out 10 -12 110grV loads and weigh them to get an average. Then you can weigh out your loads. Some weight changes by lot seems to be normal with bh209.
can't trust the marks on those toobs, btw.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Use a legit volume measure-er.

 

[GregK]

Search this forum for Bestill Creations multi post use of BH209

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Search this forum for Bestill Creations multi post use of BH209

this one i think?
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/bestill-creations-thoughts-part-2.35655/#post-302436

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

There are many reports of the BlackHorn 209 tubes being very inaccurate, I would not trust them, only use them for storage. Use a quality volume measure, I like the brass ones, measure out what you want to shoot by volume, then weigh it, that number is what you use for that particular bottle of BlackHorn 209.

Example
You used your volume measure for 110grs, you put that on your scale and it reads 78grs by weight, write that down and use your volume measure again, then weigh that, write it down, keep doing that until you feel comfortable that you will get a good average of what 110grs from volume measure gives you. With that bottle of BlackHorn 209, you can now weigh charges that will equal what your volume measure throws from that particular bottle of BH209. BH209 lots can very so it's a good idea to get your average again when using a different lot of powder.

 

[Boreal]

Thanks guys, it explains a lot. I have a 5 lb bottle of lot 34. For now, I'll weigh out every load.

 

[BKSandyHook]

I have been shooting Blackhorn for a few years now. It weighs less than other black powder substitutes. I shoot 88 Grains by weight which is 110 by volume. Since precisely weighing each charge my groups have been cut in half. I now can shoot sub 1" MOA groups at 100 yards out of my CVA.

 

[GM54-120]

I shoot 88 Grains by weight which is 110 by volume.

That load is over 120gr by volume. Depending on lot # 84grW=120grV

 

[BKSandyHook]

OK I will check it again. Thanks for the info.

 

[teambuffalooutdoors]

Weight

 

[sam-arkie]

I've shot muzzleloader since the 1980's, always used volume measure to load the powder. It was just how it was done. Last November I bought a CVA Paramount and it was recommended that you weigh the charges on a scale. I've reloaded centerfire rounds longer than I've shot muzzleloaders, so I had powder scales and dribblers and everything I needed, so I did. I also loaded some with several different volume measurers I had in my kit and then weighed those. It was an eye opener, I never dreamed that the volume measurers would be so inconsistent, specially between different measurers, but also inconsistent with charges measured in the same devices. I have always been very careful and precise when loading centerfire loads and know that very small differences in powder weights can make huge differences in accuracy. Looking back I just can't believe I never connected being so careless in quality control in measuring muzzleloader powder could be just as big a factor in accuracy as it is in loading centerfire rounds. I will weigh every charge I put down the barrel of a muzzleloader from now on. The powder tubes for holding charges are a small investment to insure maximum accuracy.

 

[ronlaughlin]

I shoot 88 Grains by weight which is 110 by volume.

It may be; then again it may not be. Different lots of Blackhorn have different densities. Different volume measuring devices are known to measure differently. Different shooters may have different measuring techniques.

The main thing is to enjoy each day.

 

[MSalyards]

On the average it's 77 gr = 110, 84 gr =120 by vol

 

[NatiBumpo]

I weigh each load. When I weighed the amount from the volume measure it wasn’t even close to the calculated amount given by Western Powders load data. It never threw the same load twice either, to much inconsistency for my liking.

 

[sabotloader]

I normally throw by volume then weigh to verify. I compiled this table over a few months. The powder being used was from very early lots of BH.

	7/11/19	8/22/19	8/24/19	9/18/19	4/29/20	5/2/20	5/5/20	6/2/20​	8/14/20​
1	82.5	82.9​	83.0​	82.3​	83.0​	84.1​	83.3​	83.6​
2	82.6	83.6​	83.8​	82.9​	82.8​	83.9​	83.4​	83.3​
3	83.3	83.2​	84.0​	83.9​	84.3​	83.2​	83.6​	83.8​
4	82.7	82.7​	82.3​	82.3​	81.2​	83.7​	83.8​	83.6​
5	82.0	83.7​	82.7​	82.0​	81.8​	83.8​	83.6​	84.0​
6	82.5	83.6​	82.9​	83.6​	83.3​	83.9​	83.5​	83.7​
7	82.4	83.4​	83.3​	83.2​	82.3​	83.6​	83.3​	83.7​
8	82.8	83.3​	83.2​	82.6​	82.7​	83.9​	83.8​	83.3​
9	83.3	83.6​	82.9​	83.6​	83.3​	83.6​	83.5​	83.6​
10	82.6	83.6​	82.5​	82.6​	82.6​	83.7​	83.6​	83.8​
11	83.2		82.6​	82.7​	82.8​	83.9​	83.8​	83.3​
12	82.1			83.1​	82.3​	83.7​	83.6​	83.3​
13					82.4​	83.8​	83.5​	83.6​
14					84.4​		83.6​	83.3​
15					83.8​		83.9​	83.7​
16								83.8​
AVG	82.7	83.4	83.0	82.9	82.9	83.8	83.6	83.6
	Lot #6	Lot #6	Lot #6	Lot #6	Lot #6	Lot #4	Lot #4	Lot #4
		Note #1
SDEV	0.4	0.3	0.5	0.6	0.8	0.2	0.2	0.2
n1	Volume measure adjusted from 7/11/19

 

[Mallen]

I used to use the old brass powder measure, until BH came around. Then I started weighing charges and noticed how far off the powder measures really were! Now I use the green tubes to hold per-weighed charges. When I'm working up a load I usually start with about 70 grains and work up in 5 grain increments up to the maximum 84 grains. Then I can fine tune the "best" load from there. I'm also a cartridge reloader, so the equipment is readily available to me.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Using the powder, and equipment here, and allowing an old person to do the measuring:

110g Blackhorn weighs 83 grain

120g Blackhorn weighs 90 grain

 

[birdog]

Like others have discovered the only "average" one can go by is the average of the lot. 84 gr does not necessarily equal 120 v.

 

[deerlessbob]

I have, like others, combined the weight/volume process. From my current container of BH, I measured out 3 brass measure 100 grain volume loads. I weighed each and they averaged 68,5 grains. I rounded that up to 70 weighed grains and loaded my usual 10 loads. I don’t have any way to measure velocity, but they all seemed to consistently shoot to point of aim.