Blackhorn 209 - Volume or Weight?

[retrieverman]

I’m new to Blackhorn and don’t really get the volume vs weight thing, so I’m just going to continue weighing my charges like I do with smokeless powder and Pyrodex.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Since volumetric measuring has proven to be rather inconsistent "for me", I stick with what is more verifiable. Using the Western Powder site for guidance I weigh exactly 84gr of BH and use that as my maximum charge, or 120v equivalent. Lower charge weights are listed there as well and I use them with confidence.

 

[birdog]

I think Bestill and a few others have determined that volume measuring and the minor differences between loads is insignificant regarding accuracy, for most of us. So correct me if I'm wrong fellas but it's my understanding the consensus from very smart people here is weighing is not necessary?

I emailed Western Powders about the difference in lots and I was told if you want to shoot 120 gr by volume then measure 120 gr. I commented that 120 gr by volume weighed 90 gr and not 84 gr as stated on their website which is what most people base 120 gr volume on. I was told if I wanted to weigh then weigh whatever gets me to 120 gr volume.

My lot 36 is 90gr/w = 120 gr/v. I used a brass powder measure. I did not use the black horn measured tubes to determine volume.

 

[sabotloader]

All depends on what lot you have! But as Western indicates - you want 120 grains - throw it in a volume measure.

 

[ronlaughlin]

My lot 36 is 90gr/w = 120 gr/v. I used a brass powder measure. I did not use the black horn measured tubes to determine volume.

Agreement here

 

[brad502a]

All depends on what lot you have! But as Western indicates - you want 120 grains - throw it in a volume measure.

and if you want to be extra exact, throw the 120 gr, then weigh it, and duplicate the weight for that lot #. This way every shot will be consistent for that lot.

 

[sabotloader]

And you realize, that it takes 5-7 grains or more difference to show any effect on Muzzle Velocity and even then it is a minor difference. But, I do need to agree with you were I shooting targets in competition I would do as you suggests - hunting no big deal.

And again as someone has already pointed out the way you throw the powder can make a difference. You must develop your method of volume measuring and repeat it each time you measure a load. I think the table I have included in this thread someplace shows what I am indicating.

 

[like.2.fly]

I have always wondered when measuring a charge by volume, are you "tapping" the measure tube to settle it down? It does tend to settle and compact a fair amount when agitated. So measuring by volume changes depending on if you just pour it loosely into the measure and level it off, or tap it a bit so the powder settles and takes up less volume. Maybe the difference isn't significant enough to worry about... But if you are meticulous and want the exact same charge every time, you must measure exactly the same way every time.

We know the volume/weight ratio can change between different lots. So when I get a new container I first measure my desired charge by volume, then tap it several times to settle it, then top off the measure again. Then weigh it. Do this several times to get an average for the lot, then label the container with that volume/weight average. From that point I fill my powder tubes with individual weighed charges using that average weight. When I get another container that is a different lot# then I repeat this process again to find the new average for that lot. I know this might be splitting hairs, but I don't mind the extra work to maximize charge consistency.

 

[Jeremyray73]

I am glad I read this forum. I never considered the difference of weight vs. volume. I knew Blackhorn was 120 max for a magnum load so I started with 100 gr and I am a stickler for precision so I used a powder scale for every load. I just upped it this year to 105 gr. Now I am finding out, I'm lucky to be alive!

 

[drpatton]

Since this is a conversation on Blackhorn 209, has anyone modified it for pistols? By modify, I mean grind it up a little to make 3Fg instead of 2Fg.

 

[txhunter58]

I can’t imagine that would work.

 

[ElDiablo]

Since this is a conversation on Blackhorn 209, has anyone modified it for pistols? By modify, I mean grind it up a little to make 3Fg instead of 2Fg.

I have considered grinding some up to use as an igniter for the main charge in a rifle. Never tried it though. I have used 5 grains of black as an igniter for BH209.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Since this is a conversation on Blackhorn 209, has anyone modified it for pistols? By modify, I mean grind it up a little to make 3Fg instead of 2Fg.

Being more of a smokeless powder than actual real black ‘equivalent’ substitute powder, it isnt made the same way. Its extruded i believe and grinding it will adversely affect its burning, possibly making it dangerously high pressure. It could have the opposite affect tho. Im usually in favor of every kind of new and outside the box tests and trials. But i dont think grinding bh209 is a good idea. Saying that, i hope anyone who might try it records the experiments cuz i would be very interested in seeing how it works.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

This powder was headaches for me here in humid Michigan hunting seasons. At the range it shot wonderfully. In the woods for the weekend hunts was totally another story.
Went back to using Real Black and 777 in the Knight Vision. My Omega gets White Hots powder these past two years..

 

[brad502a]

This powder was headaches for me here in humid Michigan hunting seasons. At the range it shot wonderfully. In the woods for the weekend hunts was totally another story.
Went back to using Real Black and 777 in the Knight Vision. My Omega gets White Hots powder these past two years..

I have had ZERO issues with BH209 in cold, wet, humid conditions either at the range or sitting in tree stand. Shot a deer with about a 1/4" of snow on my lap, bang dead deer.

 

[cook]

I used to go with volume. Then I bought a nice little Hornady scale. I had on hand six carefully measured (by volume) charges in graduated plastic tubes. Here are the weights of those volume charges: 86.4g, 82.0, 81.4, 79.6, 82.7 and 75.9. The volume I had been working for was 100g., and believe me, I was being careful.
This was Blackhorn powder.
So now I measure charges exclusively by weight.

 

[ElDiablo]

With a consistent volume measuring method (like many of us have developed) it’s easy to be within .5 to .75 grain. Which is more than close enough for the overwhelming majority of hunters.

 

[Pathfinder60]

Earlier this week I was working on a load for one of my guns. I measured out 120 grains into a few Blackhorn tubes. I shot those and than wanted to drop the load to about 110 grains. This time I weighed the loads out on my Lyman DPS powder scale. I figured 77 by weight should be 110 grains by volume. I measured out 78 grains and dumped it into the Blackhorn tube. To my surprise it only filled the tube to 100 grains. I filled the tube to 120 grains and dumped it on my scale and it weighed 96.5 grains. 120 grs/v should be 84 grs/w. I poured the Blackhorn into the tubes with a funnel. I didn't compress them. My Lyman scale was warmed up and calibrated before I threw any loads. I'm new to Blackhorn so what am I doing wrong?

What you're doing wrong is trusting those tubes to be accurate. They most definitely are not. Get a proper volume measure.

 

[brad502a]

I measure out a charge or three with the lot of BH209 that I am shooting. Weigh them get an average, they are usually within 1 grain. Then weigh out the charges in speed loaders.

 

[.45er]

With a consistent volume measuring method (like many of us have developed) it’s easy to be within .5 to .75 grain. Which is more than close enough for the overwhelming majority of hunters.

Coming from a centerfire reloading background it was hard at first to accept a volumetric approach with muzzleloaders. I still weigh my BP/substitute when trying-out new MLer projectiles...other than that volumetric measurements work just fine for me for hunting with a muzzloloader.