Carrierless 209 Breech Plug for Sidekick, Shoots Blackhorn

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Underclocked said:
1.7777777777777777777777777777778


0.5625


:wink:

That is the same numbers I came up with with a few less sevens. I was just trying to figure the percent increase and decrease from each volume.

V of the .030" x .200" flash hole came to .0001413716694 inches

V of the .040" x .200" flash hole came to .0002513274123 inches

The difference was .0001099557429 inches

By going up to .040" from .030" I was getting 1.777777778 volume increase.
"
By going down to a .030" from a .040 I was getting 0.5625 volume decrease.

I quit! :lol:
 
maybe you guys will come up with the next prime number...


:p

and how bout some UNITS for them thar numbers...

:shock:
 
Busta said:
CarlV,

Your breech plug probably headspaces off the front, so you wouldn't have room for the o-ring unless you drilled the primer pocket deeper.

Thanks. I had already figured that out once I looked at how the primer sits in my Genisis again. It actually sits with the primer proud by .077"

Carl
 
Busta, u din't needta do awl dat tho. Jest figure da ratios of da radii skwart. Biggun ta littlun or littlun ta biggun. Everthang elz iz da same der.
 
Busta-

I have a sidekick with the larger breech plug, let me know if they become available.
 
Range Report Update

Well, I got out this afternoon for some more function testing, and while I was at it figured I'd shoot some paper. I must say, this breech plug is awesome with the o-ring installed. I shot 17 Blackhorn 209 loads out of it today with 6 different primers, most of those primers are not recommended for Blackhorn 209. ALL primers worked flawlessly, absolutely no hang-fires, no misfires, not even a hiccup. ALL primers were easily removed by just finger and thumb, ALL were as clean as new with no blowback getting past the o-ring. As a matter of fact the seal was so good the only smoke I got on the standing breech leaked out between the actual primer and the battery cup of Winchester W209 primers when shooting 120 grain loads of Blackhorn 209.

I had only shot this H&R Sidekick for function testing with Federal 209A primers prior to the short range session today. This is a new rifle, and I only plan to shoot Blackhorn 209 out of it. I needed to make sure my scope was on paper so I shot an old target at 50, It was only a couple inches to the left. I had eye-ball bore sighted it prior to shooting, so it was close enough to go out to 100. I used the old Remington 209-4 (410 primers) for both of these shots to get on paper, and both charges went off just like a Federal 209A would have. The shot at 100 was 3"-4" to the left of the bull, and almost 1" low. I made an adjustment to the right and up to hopefully be 2" high and on center. I was ready to start testing primers and checking for accuracy.

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The first group was just some T/C Cheapshot 240 grain bullets with 80 gr BH209, ignited by a Winchester Triple Se7en Primer. All loads fired flawlessly, and ended up with a 1.45" group, I was happy with that and figured that this H&R Sidekick was going to shoot just like my NEF Huntsman does.
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The second group was Hornady .430" 300 grain HP/XTP in the green Harvester Crush Rib Sabot with 90 grains BH209, ignited by Winchester WML209 Muzzleloading Primer (tan box). All loads fired flawlessly, the first two were touching, the third left the group and ended up at 1.33".
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The third group was Speer's .429" 270 grain Gold Dot's in the green Knight High Pressure Sabot with 90 grains BH209, ignited by the standard CCI 209 Primers. All loads fired flawlessly, had some horizontal stringing, but ended up with a 1.75" group.
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At this point my fingers wer starting to get numb, so I figured I better get a bullet that I can crank up. I picked the T/C 200 grain shockwave in the supplied sabot over 120 grains BH209, ignited by the standard Winchester W209 Primer. All loads fired flawlessly, the first two were touching about 2-1/2" above the bull, pulled the third a hair right, but it was still good enough for my only MOA group of the day at .758". I will be following up with that load again next time. The W209 primers leaked some soot smoke between the actual primer and the battery cup.
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042.jpg


After that last group, I had a grin you couldn't wipe off with a Mack Truck. I deceided to shoot the Hornady 350 grain FPB over 80 grains BH209, ignited by Remington Kleanbore Muzzleloading Primers. All loads fired flawlessly, the first two were nearly touching tearing one hole, with the third ending up about an inch to the right for a group that measured 1.20".
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The inside of the breech was so clean I couldn't hardly believe it, after 17 shots the breech plug looked as good as it did before I started shooting. The standing breech had a small smoke ring around the firing pin, notice the size, all of this came out between the primer and the battery cup, none leaked past the o-ring as evidenced by how clean the primers were. You would get more soot on the standing breech by just firing a primer with no powder out of the orange primer carriers than I ended up with after firing 17 hunting loads out of this breech plug with o-ring installed.
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Here is another picture of the breech plug after I was done shooting. :D
012.jpg


To say I am happy with this breech plug is an understatement, it has such a short path to the powder, the o-ring seals it from blowback, and I really think you could use ANY 209 primer. I know it was only in the low 30's today, but had to be in the 20's with the wind chill. We all have this pre-conceived notion of what will work and what won't, but let me tell you this plug worked perfectly with every primer that shouldn't work. There is hardly any crud, the flash hole is still wide open. I think all of that crud that builds up in those long flame channels of our Knight, T/C, and CVA plugs goes through the .040" flash hole directly into the powder charge. And good riddance as far as I'm concerned. :wink:
 
Great report, Busta.

Dang!! That rifle just lays them in there regardless of the bullet. Good barrel.

Impressive results with that new plug.

Now get them to make one that will work in a White. :wink:
 
redpep said:
Busta-

I have a sidekick with the larger breech plug, let me know if they become available.

Since the cat is now out of the bag, I guess I can tell you. They have ordered the material to make the 7/8" plugs. One of my original 7/8" plugs was sent to them last Friday. They should have it early this week. He doesn't have a rifle with a 7/8" plug, so I'll probably have to be the test dummy when he gets some turned. I really think they will sell as many if not more 7/8" plugs. I wished I had known of an available CNC lathe, I would be making my own design.

I have a few different ideas that should work well, I just don't have a machine at my disposal. :cry: They should have something for us by the end of the month or so.
 
Sweet report Busta :D I sent you a PM from GBO. I have a few questions on the 7/8" plug.

Thanks man
Nick
 
I forgot to add this. We are shipping these plugs with two o-rings. They measure just a hair over 1/4" so the actually have a slight press in the primer pocket. They do indeed, stay put, too :)

Nick
 
Busta,

How does the oring look after these several firings? Do you see any of the material on the ID being burned? Very nice work by the way! 8)

ShawnT
 
There is soot on the o-ring after firing. But, when you remove it for inspection, it wipes totally clean and looks like it's new again. As far as melting, I have yet to see that at all. I have roughly 70 shots through mine with the orig. o-ring. It still looks like new. I am shooting 85gr T-7 behind a 45cal 300 gr Hornady SST Sabot.

That brings up another subject. Does anyone have a need for a bullet seater to accept, the SST sabots? I ask, because the stock one will not seat the bullet without messing up the tip. I have made one of those as well. Though many of you may already have a source for one, I just thought I would bring it up.

Nick :)
 
I think mine shipped out today. I had sent an email over the weekend, I got to work at 0600 and already had a reply from this a.m.

so i just emailed my info back with cc and i think i'm good to go.

the only thing I'm wondering is....

why the heck H&R/NEF? couldn't do this in the first place?

:roll:

anyhow I want to thank everyone involved, their is no gun that can touch a sidekick for what I bought mine for new from cabela's, about $160 bucks.
 
duckaroni said:
Are the newer NEF plugs on Sidekicks 7/8 or 5/8?

Thanks.

They are 5/8". The 2001-2004 Huntsmans and 2004 Sidekicks all had 7/8" breech plugs. 2005-current are 5/8".

5/8" on left, 7/8" on right.
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ShawnT said:
Busta,

How does the oring look after these several firings? Do you see any of the material on the ID being burned? Very nice work by the way! 8)

ShawnT

I have about 25 shots through this o-ring, the I.D started at .145", it is now about .160". The O.D. is the same .285", and the thickness went from .070" to .069". So to answer your question, the I.D. is starting to wash out. Another point to remember, is I have just shot Blackhorn 209 with mine, and there is a lot of heat and pressure generated. I knew they wouldn't last forever, but this one is still doing it's job.

I will be looking to buy these o-rings in bulk. UC posted a couple links, a bag of 100 silicone ones for $6.10. so for 6.1 cents I could change one out. The other link had 100 teflon o-rings for $35, 35 cents a piece would still be several times less expensive than the primer carriers that don't seal, and don't last as long. The MSRP of a 10 pack of primer carriers is about $15, that makes them $1.50 a piece and they leak like a sieve from the very first shot. 100 of those would MSRP would run you $150.00.

If you look at the Knight Red Full Plastic Jackets, I think they run around $10 for 100. They would come to 10 cents a piece and you use one every time you pull the trigger. The Silicone o- ring would be 6.1 cents and would last for 20-25 shots easily. That would be about 6 cents for an average range session, or 6 cents for the entire hunting season. I like the o-rings, even if they were $1 a piece they would be less expensive than the alternative, and work better to boot.

I will buy a couple bags, should last for a while. :D
 
Thanks Busta.

I have to say, this is the best site, with the most helpful people!

I even got photos for my "silly" question. Awsome.

I am going to have to get one of these plugs ASAP.

If the new plug with the bh209 shoots accurately in my rifle, I would say that I would have the perfect (for me) black powder rifle.

There is something about these Sidekicks that I really like...

Edit--I guess this will solve my carrier problem as well. (see other thread)
 
Thanks Nick and Busta!

I was just curious about how the orings were handling the heat. But according to your shooting they are holding up great. I really like this idea and from this pictures you posted it seems like a great upgrade and well worth the time. Going to have to keep an eye out for one of those rifles now. Thanks for posting the great info, and doing all the leg work! :yeah:

ShawnT
 

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