Couple of powder questions

[Super 91]

How do you guys anneal the copper? Will water queching like I am doing keep it soft, or do you have to do a controlled heat, slowly bringing it back to room temp? How would you suggest I make these bullets "softer"?

 

[big6x6]

Bob..
The 300gr XTPs/57.7gr IMR 4198 load shot pretty dang good! Way to go!

 

[Doohan]

Great report Bob! I am liking that 300xtp combo... that is some serious energy!

I am guessing with a 2-3" high at 100 you are still in the kill zone at 200



As far as the Barnes go... dont worry about it. Dirt and Deer are very different. That combo could take down a charging Patty with one shot!

 

[Super 91]

Bob..
The 300gr XTPs/57.7gr IMR 4198 load shot pretty dang good! Way to go!

Thanks, I think that my forearm being loose caused me to have some skewed test results on the prior three groups. I am going to make sure that there is zero contact with the barrel or action, then try my tests again. I'm very pleased with what I am experiencing so far. I'll be putting my tests to real world experince on this hog hunt in a few weeks.

Chuck, what do you think about the Barnes not expanding?

 

[Super 91]

Great report Bob! I am liking that 300xtp combo... that is some serious energy!

I am guessing with a 2-3" high at 100 you are still in the kill zone at 200



As far as the Barnes go... dont worry about it. Dirt and Deer are very different. That combo could take down a charging Patty with one shot!

Thanks JJ! I need to punch the data into a ballistic calc to see what I have going on. But I'm betting there is some serious punch to these babies!!

Have you shot the Barnes into the perma-gel with good results? Any failures if you have?

 

[Super 91]

Trajectory Output
Input Data
Manufacturer: Barnes Description: 0.451 dia. 300 gr. Expander MZ

Muzzle Velocity: 2330.0 ft/s Chronograph Distance: 10.0 ft

Sight Height: 1.50 in Sight Offset: 0.00 in
Zero Height: 0.00 in Zero Offset: 0.00 in
Azimuth: 0.00 MOA Elevation: 0.00 MOA
LOS Angle: 0.0 deg Cant Angle: 0.0 deg

Wind Speed: 10.0 mph Wind Angle: 90.0 deg
Target Speed: 10.0 mph Target Angle: 90.0 deg

Temperature: 45.0 ?F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Relative Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0 ft

Vital Zone Radius: 5.0 in Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No
Corrected Pressure: Yes Target Relative Drops: Yes
Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No
Calculated Parameters
Elevation: 4.86 MOA Azimuth: 0.00 MOA

Atmospheric Density: 0.07859 lbs/ft? Speed of Sound: 1101.3 ft/s

Maximum PBR: 251 yds Maximum PBR Zero: 216 yds
Range at Max Height: 123 yds Energy at PBR: 1367.3 ft?lbs

Sectional Density: 0.211 lbs/in?

Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft?lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2344.0 2.128 3659.3 0.000 0.0 ***
100 -0.0 -0.0 2.2 2.1 1944.6 1.766 2518.6 0.141 24.7 23.6
200 -7.8 -3.7 9.7 4.6 1591.1 1.445 1686.1 0.311 54.8 26.2
300 -29.6 -9.4 24.0 7.6 1298.4 1.179 1122.7 0.520 91.6 29.2
400 -72.1 -17.2 46.1 11.0 1091.1 0.991 792.9 0.774 136.2 32.5
500 -143.7 -27.5 75.2 14.4 968.8 0.880 625.1 1.067 187.8 35.9

Does this look pretty close?

 

[Super 91]

Max Point blank range is 211 yds when zeroed at 180 yds.
Range
yds Path
in ComeUp
clicks Velocity
fps Energy
ft/lbs Momentum
lb ft/s ToF
sec Windage
in Windage
clicks Optimal
Game Wgt
Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 2330 3616 99.86 0.000 0.0 NaN 1708
25 -0.4 7 2232 3319 95.67 0.033 0.1 2 1502
50 0.2 -2 2136 3040 91.56 0.067 0.5 4 1317
75 0.4 -2 2043 2780 87.55 0.103 1.2 6 1151
100 0.0 0 1952 2537 83.64 0.141 2.1 8 1004
125 -0.9 3 1863 2312 79.85 0.180 3.4 10 873
150 -2.5 6 1777 2104 76.17 0.221 5.0 13 758
175 -4.8 10 1694 1912 72.62 0.265 6.9 15 657
200 -7.8 15 1615 1736 69.19 0.310 9.2 18 568
225 -11.6 20 1538 1575 65.91 0.358 12.0 20 491
250 -16.4 25 1465 1429 62.78 0.408 15.1 23 424
275 -22.1 31 1396 1298 59.81 0.460 18.7 26 367
300 -29.0 37 1331 1180 57.05 0.515 22.7 29 318
325 -37.2 44 1271 1077 54.49 0.573 27.2 32 277
350 -46.6 51 1217 986 52.14 0.633 32.1 35 243
375 -57.6 59 1167 907 50.01 0.697 37.6 38 214
400 -70.1 67 1124 841 48.16 0.762 43.4 41 192
425 -84.4 76 1086 786 46.54 0.830 49.7 45 173
450 -100.5 85 1053 738 45.12 0.900 56.4 48 158
475 -118.5 95 1023 697 43.85 0.973 63.5 51 145
500 -138.6 106 997 662 42.72 1.047 70.9 54 134

Here's another

 

[Super 91]

One thing I have not said but ought to be noted, I am shooting these rounds as fast as I can re-load. I'm not waiting between shots for the barrel to cool or anything. I am just shooting as fast I can comfortably so I feel good about the shot. That is what is cool about this gun to me. I really am enjoying it, and once I get the thing firgured out and get the right load for it, I think it will be hard to beat!

 

[Anonymous]

Do I need to bring an "auto-loader" for back-up??? :shock: :lol:

Note to self: safety glasses,,(check) kevlar vest...(check)...ear muffs...(check)....

 

[doggzoe]

We heat it then let it what we call soak (maintain a temp so the inside temp of the coil is same as the out side). Then the furnace is taken off and a cooler is put on. This is a contraption that has water jackets inside and water is ran through it to transfer heat from the metal to the water. It looks like a gaint tin can that is upside down. No water ever touchs the metal. Once the metal cools to a set temp the cooler is taken off and the metal is unloaded. This process can take up to 24 hours. I would think you could heat your bullets then put them into a fire proof container and cover them with a fire proof insulation and let them cool slowly. Lay the fire proof material right on the bullets. Let them cool an hour or so and see what happens.

Don

 

[Super 91]

I'll have to give that a try. Maybe some ice packs on top of the fire blanket? I need to find a metalurgist...or become one... :wink: Thanks for your help.

 

[big6x6]

Do I need to bring an "auto-loader" for back-up??? :shock: :lol:

Note to self: safety glasses,,(check) kevlar vest...(check)...ear muffs...(check)....

:lol: :lol:

 

[Super 91]

Hey! I didn't think that was funny......... :evil: :evil: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Anybody heard from Bob lately?? :? Bob????!!! :shock: :shock: :lol:

 

[Doohan]

Great report Bob! I am liking that 300xtp combo... that is some serious energy!

I am guessing with a 2-3" high at 100 you are still in the kill zone at 200



As far as the Barnes go... dont worry about it. Dirt and Deer are very different. That combo could take down a charging Patty with one shot!

Thanks JJ! I need to punch the data into a ballistic calc to see what I have going on. But I'm betting there is some serious punch to these babies!!

Have you shot the Barnes into the perma-gel with good results? Any failures if you have?

Yes, I have shot them into gel and one thing about Barnes... they rarely if ever fail. They always open and work as advertised. Post mortem shots have left me scratching my head at times but the bullets do work. I think they are great bullets for close work out to say 150 with some velocity behind them. A Barnes bullet will not fail if pushed too fast and they will make a hole in anything you put in front of them.

FWIW I also feel the Barnes bullet lacks a bit of HS shock that a lead bullet employs... maybe that is why they penetrate more.... Kind of like obturation... a barnes will not obturate like a lead core bullet, this results in higher MV of a lead core bullet of the same weight. I guess the same is true at impact. The bullet doesnt "mushroom" like a lead bullet and because of that it penetrates deeper?

... .just my theory today... :huh?: :drinkers:

 

[Super 91]

I love the pics of the bullets you have as your avatar. Now THAT is what I am looking for. If my 300 XTP keeps shooting good, I probably will use that one for the hog hunt just to see how it does. But I think your theory has merit.

 

[Super 91]

Okay guys, I had a few thoughts. I noticed that my hinnge pin was in a different spot most every time I took the forearm off, so I am having my machinist make me a new pin that has a head on it so it locks in place, similar to Mr. Epp's design but not the same. Of course I am not making these to sell, it's only for my personal use so I'm not after Mr. Epp's business.

I also have several different breech plugs made into conversions so that I can try something different than the 209's which I have been using. My main concern was that the factory plugs may be made with 300 series stainless which is too soft to stand up to smokeless. So I put in a call to T/C customer service and low and behold, they are 400 series stainless, which is the same grade a regular rifle barrel is made of.

So my concern for a plug failure has gone out the window. I am going to try the Hornet conversion next time out with the new pin to see if my groups tighten up any more. I have completely free-floated the forearm now and nothing is touching the action or anything. I sort of pillar bedded the forearm that should stay in place and be much better now as well.

So as soon as I get all this put back together, I will hit the range and see what this gun will do!! I hope to shoot Sat so I will post the results once I get a chance.

Thanks for everyones help.