Devils Advocate....350gr FPB.....

[big6x6]

Don't you think you're getting a little TOO excited over a .50cal CONICAL? SERIOUSLY? It's a conical remember....call it an improved POWERBELT. It's STILL .50cal and 350grs and needs a LOT of velocity to over come those factors...

I've been thinking about this for a while...actually since this bullet first came out...my response to Hornady is WHY? Is a SLIGHTLY improved Powerbelt something I was REALLY looking forward to? Has this type projectile been on my wish list since I started muzzleloading? The short answer of course is NO! ....and here's why...

A .50cal conical is going to need to weigh a LOT to have a decent ballistic coefficient hence the FBPs 350gr weight. Hornady says the bc is .285...that's probably in the ballpark too. Well if .285 is in the ballpark for the FPB then .250 is what Hornady says the 300gr SST is and they also say the 250gr SST is .210. Boy...from HERE it looks as if the FPB is eating Hornadys other bullets LUNCH! No so my friend!

How fast do you think you can push a freaking 350gr .50cal conical anyway with blackpowder subs? Answer: Not fast ENOUGH!

Using 120gr BH209 I can push a 250gr SST ABOUT 2150fps from a long barrel Triumph....ACTUAL velocity Athens, AL if I shoot with the wind. Not allowing the bullet to rise more than 3 inches above the line of sight I an ZEROED at 170yds and 3.34 inches low at 200yds. Now THAT'S a flat shooting load and is 100% non-fiction and is DOable! Of course energy is PLENTY at that range and beyond.... Now take the heavier 300gr SST... again shooting with the wind 120gr BH209 I could MAYBE get 2000fps with the 300gr bullet. Although the 300gr bullet has a better bc, it's not enough to compensate for being 17% heavier so my ZEROED range is now 162yds and now I'm 4.52 inches low and 200yds. By now you should see where I'm going...

To have a trajectory JUST EQUAL to the above 300gr SST...the 350gr FPB is going to have to have a muzzle velocity of 1950fps which is quite frankly, NOT doable....not in Athens, AL or with the wind! :lol: It is going to be hard to if not impossible to break 1900fps using 120gr BH209... IF ONE DID get the 1950fps recoil will be 24% greater and it STILL won't have the trajectory the 250gr SST has...

I can't see myself EVER shooting anything other than a target with a 350gr FPB...sorry... MAYBE, just MAYBE I could use it as a woods gun with 100gr BH209, trajectory be damned. 75yd shot would be a LONG one! Maybe, just MAYBE it would be useful in a muzzleloader with a loose bore... On second thought, pass me the 250gr sabots please!

 

[frontier gander]

Actually, Its an improved 1860's conical based off the "Mini ball"

So yes, It is an improved Mini ball with some candy coating on it.

 

[Semisane]

Well, I guess 90% of ML shooters are never going to shoot over 150 yards, and even that's a looong way out for most. It is for me.

If it performs well on game, is accurate in most guns, and easy loading, it will probably sell well. But dang, another buck-a-bullet projectile. Guess I'll stick with Gold Dots and an assortment of pure lead balls/conicals.

 

[txhunter58]

Hey, you have no argument from me that sabots as a whole will outperform this bullet. Not only will they fly flatter, but the bullets you can buy will hold up better once they hit game

However, for those of us who hunt in Colorado, your whole argument goes out the window. Then the debate becomes "which conical is best?"

In that debate, the FPB seems to be big enough, fly flat enough, and (although it really remains to be seen) has good terminal ballistics. It certainly seems to penetrate well, fly fairly flat (out of my gun) and seems to hold together better than a lot of the conicals on the market today. That said, it is really all speculation and we will know a lot more after this fall.

 

[omegaman]

Yep,I'll take a sabot over a conical...BUT as stated some states don't allow sabots so hence the need for a quality projectile that is legal to hunt with....don't hurt that they works with BH209 either.

 

[Doohan]

Very good thread! I suppose it all depends on where you hunt.. In OHIO a big slow mover isnt on my menu!


However, I bet these would be GOOD pig medicine!

Chuck, maybe you can pop a pig in TX with one?

 

[sabotloader]

Even then it is not a legal bullet for the three northwest states because it is not all lead - sooo... it might be good in someplaces, but for us we still need to shoot those lead freight trains.

 

[Lee 9]

Thats all true, but those of us that travel and they in 4 or more states will certainly consider it a good option, as it is I plan on using the 200ge Shock Wave in a couple of places it is my go to bullet for long range my go to bullet for places where the range is not over 150 and I want a bang flop [ some places it is not good to have them get off the property or end up in some bodies yard people are building all around my hunting property] what I am wondering about is how good will FPB's be for bang flops ? I get 1800fps with my minute of angle load and on my own property 50 yds is rare it is a bit thick. Beyond that 2 places I hunt they are or can be made legal where sabots are not and while they certainly wont match sabots for long range they group far better at the longer ranges for me than the heavy ones do and shoot flatter to. Lee

 

[txhunter58]

I am sure with the succes of this bullet, Hornady might be looking at ways to expand its use. So email them and ask them to simply make one that leaves off the copper jacket, then all you have to do is pull out the plastic tip.

 

[Lee 9]

Maybe a version with out copper plateing and with out hollow point just under one inch? Would that cover every ones needs? I wonder if they would be as accurate if they cut the weight back to around 300 and made it a soft point. Lee

 

[Underclocked]

Chuck, what is the longest shot you have made on a big game animal?

What is the average distance of shots you have made on big game animals?

(all with respect to using MUZZLELOADERS!)

How DID those old boys wipe out the American buffalo with those pitiful bullets?

 

[Semisane]

How DID those old boys wipe out the American buffalo with those pitiful bullets?

Now I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect those buffalo hunters didn't care how far a buff ran after the shot, or how long it took to die. They just kept putting bullets in animals until they ran out of targets. Then the skinners went out later and started working on anything dead.

 

[big6x6]

I wonder if they would be as accurate if they cut the weight back to around 300 and made it a soft point. Lee

IMO it doesn't matter..a .50cal conical that weighs 300gr..no sectional density...no penetration...ie 295gr .50cal Powerbelt...

Chuck, what is the longest shot you have made on a big game animal?

About 250yds or a little longer with centerfire...
Just under 210yds with a muzzleloader...

What is the average distance of shots you have made on big game animals?

The AVERAGE distance...I really have no idea but I do know that the vast majority is between 17yds(Texas LAST year! :lol: ) and about 150yds.. Really MOST have been less than 150yds. It's not that I WANT to shoot a deer at 200yds...trust me..I DON'T! But I certainly see no reason to handicap onself with a 150yd load/gun when a 200yd shot(or longer) is certainly POSSIBLE!

I buy into the Colorado thing...and I'd certainly use the FPB before a same weight Powerbelt..

However, I bet these would be GOOD pig medicine!

Chuck, maybe you can pop a pig in TX with one?

Hey that sounds like a pretty good idea!

 

[frontier gander]

no penetration from a 295 powerbelt? Boy, i've shot deer with 150 grains loose powder and 90 grains, all exits, deer either dropped in their tracks or with one deer, ran maybe 30 yards max.

Not sure where you guys come up with this stuff on powerbelts not penetrating.

 

[Critter]

Not sure where you guys come up with this stuff on powerbelts not penetrating.

Personal knowledge

 

[frontier gander]

Yeah personal knowledge is right if you actually used one on game.

 

[big6x6]

Not sure where you guys come up with this stuff on powerbelts not penetrating.

Personal knowledge

...and MANY other's personal knowledge. Of course it depends on the powder charge AND distance shot is taken. I'd actually shoot something with a 338gr or heavier .50cal Powerbelt...405gr and 444gr even better.

 

[Bucker]

Frontier Gander

PowerBelt 50 Cal 295 Grain, AeroTip, Copper, 100 grain pellets T7 at 35 yards. Punched through no blood, dry day, no blood was on hands and knees in the brush looking for a turned leaf or anything. Found the deer dead 65-70 yards after crawling and scenting. Heart shot! I threw them away that day!
250 grain Shockwave around 35 yards, 2 pellets T7 broadside shot , Blood everywhere on both sides of the deer, trailed 15 yards in brush blood everywhere found dead! Bought another pack that day, killed more deer and never looked back!

 

[Doohan]

Not sure where you guys come up with this stuff on powerbelts not penetrating.

Personal knowledge

+1 on that..

60 yd shot out of a .45 - 195 grainer on top of 3 pellets.. Bullet splashed and nearly blew the near side leg off... held on by a few tendons.. Found the deer hours later and finished it off..

Bullet never penetrated the chest cavity.. but the impact DID bruise the heart. :cry:

Never again unless with the heaviest of 348 or more.. even then I will wish for something better.

 

[frontier gander]

60 yd shot out of a .45 - 195 grainer on top of 3 pellets.

Common mistake when you're only thinking in FPS terms.

Those 195s do hold up great with 80 grains. 225 will handle 80 grains 3f triple 7 which i believe is close to or a little over 100g of pyrodex.

Always have used 80 to 90 grains loose powder with the 295s and i prefer the lower charge as they drop them in their tracks.

Stick with high powder charges with the heavier saboted pistol bullets.

Pure lead has its limits.

I dont seen any one pushing a great plains, maxiball-maxi hunter, BS or no excuse with 150 grains powder.