First of many days with the 50 cal fast twist smokeless trying to establish Harvester smooth or ribbed?

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LHR said:
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/smokeless-patriot-observations.58219/#post-558342
Decay,
I linked a post about a load that just flat shoots in my Brux Patriot with N120 you might be interested in as well, that's with the Northern Precision Pin Point 270 gr. bullet. You can get these made up without the tip in a bonded version as well. Mtn Mnky will attest to the accuracy of these as he is the one who put me onto them.

Also Mtn monkey,
I have some Harvester clear / white .40 for .45 sabots that Cutting Edge bullets gave me to try out since I was having problems getting their bullets to shoot and noticed I was shredding sabots with N120. They said these were a prototype sabot, you might be interested to try them out as well. For me they shredded just the same as the light blues did, but I'm understanding that N120 is not the most sabot friendly powder either, and the Cutting Edge bullets are known for this problem I gather as well.

I'll have to see how many I have left and get some pics for you.
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thanks for thinkin about me. I am hoping to not have to shoot bullets as heavy as the 270gr, but if that what is gonna take, then I'll end up buying them to test. Prototype white Harvesters! interesting. At what powder charge of N120 did you start shredding sabots; presumably the light blue crush rib before the prototype white?
 
Mnt monkey said:
Haven't got to the 45 today I'm just been messing around with the 50 and shopping in town decided to go ahead and take the 50 to 300 yards this is three shots Pitman 325 grain dot 452 IMR 59.3 grains the wind is really going nuts it's been hard to sit here and wait on the Wind to break I shot three at 200 this is three at 300 I don't know if I'll get out to 400 today but the 300 groups got potential I'm trying to save some bullets for 400 so I'm not going to do much more at 300 today
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Thats an excellent group with those " weak links "! lol
 
Still trying to bring Clarity to what I'm getting at and sometimes I think I struggle with that,when I'm talking about tuning plastic, yes it's a good umbrella 90° and yes on a calm day usually my plastic will land in generally same area and yes usually the accurate load is right at the peak of the Plastics ability to function,, but just to talk about that a little bit more in depth the plastic is the seal between your bullet and the rifling of the barrel doesn't it just make sense that when that seal is at its peak potential that your load is going to shoot its best,, even your numbers if you're looking at spread numbers on a chronograph are going to be the lowest when that seal is at its peak as long as your bullet weight and length is potentially within the parameters of the twist of the barrel this seal or this aspect of your load is to me the most important, I would still tweak a little bit up or down once I felt like I had established this place with my plastic, what I keep trying to emphasize is how important it is,, and it is more than just a visual of the plastic after it's been fired, you'll see it in your load Flyers will disappear and now your load will have a circular shape or your groups will and it will be ready to fine tweak into just a glob, I would never be separating ,weighing ,measuring sabot thinking that that gave me some type of Edge on things and the effect of really warm weather versus really cold weather isn't so much on my radar screen either I know if I have that plastic is at its best function then it's going to function at its best no matter what the ambient temperature is, now I realize there may be a perfect ambient temperature where everything runs absolutely perfect,, I'm taking my best load hunting with these guns no matter what ,,I do not have a sabot warmer I keep in my pocket neither do I have a sabot cooler if I'm sitting in a 95° day hunting pigs.
 
Mnt monkey said:
Still trying to bring Clarity to what I'm getting at and sometimes I think I struggle with that,when I'm talking about tuning plastic, yes it's a good umbrella 90° and yes on a calm day usually my plastic will land in generally same area and yes usually the accurate load is right at the peak of the Plastics ability to function,, but just to talk about that a little bit more in depth the plastic is the seal between your bullet and the rifling of the barrel doesn't it just make sense that when that seal is at its peak potential that your load is going to shoot its best,, even your numbers if you're looking at spread numbers on a chronograph are going to be the lowest when that seal is at its peak as long as your bullet weight and length is potentially within the parameters of the twist of the barrel this seal or this aspect of your load is to me the most important, I would still tweak a little bit up or down once I felt like I had established this place with my plastic, what I keep trying to emphasize is how important it is,, and it is more than just a visual of the plastic after it's been fired, you'll see it in your load Flyers will disappear and now your load will have a circular shape or your groups will and it will be ready to fine tweak into just a glob, I would never be separating ,weighing ,measuring sabot thinking that that gave me some type of Edge on things and the effect of really warm weather versus really cold weather isn't so much on my radar screen either I know if I have that plastic is at its best function then it's going to function at its best no matter what the ambient temperature is, now I realize there may be a perfect ambient temperature where everything runs absolutely perfect,, I'm taking my best load hunting with these guns no matter what ,,I do not have a sabot warmer I keep in my pocket neither do I have a sabot cooler if I'm sitting in a 95° day hunting pigs.
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Outstanding post!
 
Decay said:
Tom: We've got to pick up all the old blue sabots off the ground in front of the shooting bench so we can see and compare the newly fired ones better. It'll be one more data point to record.
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We did that so we could shoot them with the rim fires & piled them on my bench.
I’ve continued to pick them up since.
I have brought that up to you about picking up & inspecting the sabots from your groups. We have done that, but not like we should have. We will correct that when you get back.
 
I take a rake to the range with me and the first thing I do is rake the area within the first 15 yards in front of the bench and about twenty yards wide. There's a contingent of smoker shooters that use the range enough that sabots can get lost in the mess of them that collect in this area. I pick my spent sabots up to check when I get home. I think a lot can be learned by studying those critters, especially if an issue arises.

And Mnt. Monkey.... I admire your in-depth venture into the world of bullets and sabots and powders and barrels. I think this goes a long way in helping people understand how one aspect of shooting can have such a profound effect on another aspect. I have learned a lot from your adventure here as well as from what Ron does with his bullet expansion demonstrations and appreciate what both of you do so unselfishly.
 
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A really good cut rifle barrel I think is going to potentially be hard on plastic,unless it's something with a little different edge like , 5r rifleling. A really good cut rifle barrel is perfect for sizing bullets to bore ,a really good button rifle barrel can potentially be good at both, that's something I would not have said 5 years ago because I'm so anchored in really great cut rifle barrels in all of my past Centerfire and with other smokeless builds I never realized the full potential of a really good button rifle barrel, I do now today ,but really good button rifle barrel is capable of both shooting really great, sized bullet to bore loads and producing excellent plastic loads it really depends I think on what you want out of your gun and out of a barrel I think any of us looking at new builds or Custom Guns needs to really consider that because the button rifle is more versatile if it is a good true bore that is even, now if we enjoy target shooting more and we're wanting to Absolute extreme in accuracy then yes a really premium true cut rifle barrel for size bullets cannot be beat. Plastic heals a poor bore. We have two sabots, the light blue for 45 Cal, and the Harvester black for 50 cal ribbed and smooth versions short and long with the black it really is enough to do some amazing things, I hope more people realize that and at the same time I wish we had better sabots.
 
The red sabots that come with the Hornady SST 250s and 300 grains it says it's a low drag the bottom of it looks a little different is anybody shot that smokeless? The bass seems a little taller and yet the sides look the same
 
And just to clarify ,,those wore shot in the Harvester smooth black as part of this 22 twist test. What a great performer this load has been with a lot of different bullets I hope the next 22 twist Barrel shows the same consistency and versatility,, life has such potentials doesn't it!
 
The first two went in the same hole and this Barrel puts the clean shot in with the group I looked in the scope and couldn't see another bullet and I was like man surely that did not happen and put a third one down and it was just off the first two I decided to just leave that come back to that ,I have some 250 grains also I will try a group with those sometime the next few days that was the xtp mag 452 300 grain I'll try the 250 grain hollow point next.
 
Mnt monkey said:
And just to clarify ,,those wore shot in the Harvester smooth black as part of this 22 twist test. What a great performer this load has been with a lot of different bullets I hope the next 22 twist Barrel shows the same consistency and versatility,, life has such potentials doesn't it!
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It’s showing an immense amount of potential. That’s a sabot shootin rig ya got right there. Ain’t no disputing that fact
 

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