First Time ML Hunter...

[MrChristopher]

Thanks for info ShawnT. Tons of food for thought.

Not sure how true it is but the manual(and alot of online sources) say I need the Blackhorn breech plug from CVA to shoot loose powder. I found around here in store but it was 50 bucks!

I've only heard good things as well about the harvester crush rib sabots but I can't seem to find them anywhere around here and ordering online wouldn't allow them to get here in time for hunting season.

I plan to dial it in the best I can with the load I have and then tweak and play with it over the summer and fine tune it. I will more than likely get the blackhorn breech plug and the harvester sabots like you've suggested and start using BH209.

Bullet choices are in short supply around here as well....muzzleloading doesn't seem to as big a thing here in Canada yet as it is in the U.S.

Bullet choices are pretty much the Hornady SST's or FPB's and powerbelts. I chose the hornady's because they seem to have better reviews over the powerbelts.

 

[ShawnT]

Thanks for info ShawnT. Tons of food for thought.

Not sure how true it is but the manual(and alot of online sources) say I need the Blackhorn breech plug from CVA to shoot loose powder. I found around here in store but it was 50 bucks!

I've only heard good things as well about the harvester crush rib sabots but I can't seem to find them anywhere around here and ordering online wouldn't allow them to get here in time for hunting season.

I plan to dial it in the best I can with the load I have and then tweak and play with it over the summer and fine tune it. I will more than likely get the blackhorn breech plug and the harvester sabots like you've suggested and start using BH209.

Bullet choices are in short supply around here as well....muzzleloading doesn't seem to as big a thing here in Canada yet as it is in the U.S.

Bullet choices are pretty much the Hornady SST's or FPB's and powerbelts. I chose the hornady's because they seem to have better reviews over the powerbelts.

Forgot you mentioned you were in Canada. If you can order from or have a Cabela's store, they carry the Crushribs and smooth Harvesters. The XTPs can also be found in pre-packed packages with sabots too but you might need to swap the sabot for a better fitting one for your rifle.

The Blackhorn Breech plug is for shooting Blackhorn Powder, it takes a little more heat/pressure than other substitute powders. You can still shoot Pyrodex, Black Powder, or 777 loose powders with the Breech plug you have that came with your rifle no problem, in fact they are easier to ignite than pellets. Blackhorn is the one that is a bit harder to ignite and needs the other plug, or you can have the one that came with your rifle modified for a ventliner. Pyrodex or 777 loose would still be best in your rifle with the SST with your plug.

The Power belts often do get bad reviews, especially the all Lead un-plated ones. Apparently some do ok with reduced charges to not push them too hard causing them to over expand. Some say that the heavier Platinums hold together better.

Since you are limited in what you can obtain now, then you have to work with what you can get. Sometimes we here in the lower 48 take for granted what we can get hold of locally to try on short notice.

 

[ShawnT]

MrChristopher

I just thought of another bullet option that you might should look into. PR Bullets, they are in Canada and make some very good lead bullets. I have shot the 300 grain Dead Centers and also took a deer with them. They were very accurate and performed very well on Deer with a 2 pellet load.

The one they call the "Polymer Tip" was sold in packages here called the QT for a while. I shot some of the 40 cal 215 grain bullets once and they are very accurate but I never used one on deer.

http://www.prbullet.com/

 

[MrChristopher]

MrChristopher

I just thought of another bullet option that you might should look into. PR Bullets, they are in Canada and make some very good lead bullets. I have shot the 300 grain Dead Centers and also took a deer with them. They were very accurate and performed very well on Deer with a 2 pellet load.

The one they call the "Polymer Tip" was sold in packages here called the QT for a while. I shot some of the 40 cal 215 grain bullets once and they are very accurate but I never used one on deer.

http://www.prbullet.com/

I'll look into those for sure. I can get the Hornady XTP bullets in bulk and they aren't that expensive here either. That bullet has really good reviews from a number of sites so I think I will try it for next year for sure. If I could get my hands on the harvester sabots it would make for a better deal than buying the SST's as well.

I tried ordering the harvester sabots from Cabela's but they won't ship to my address and they don't have them on Cabela's Canadian website.

I might just have to try touring around to the smaller gun shops around me and see if they have the harvester sabots.

What makes those sabots so special versus the ones that come with the SST's? I've read great reviews but was just curious why they're so reliable.

 

[GM54-120]

PR also sells a full selection of MMP sabots http://www.prbullet.com/shop/products.p ... =1&nPage=2

The HPH-24 is very close in size to the Harvester black smooth, Its just longer so a 250gr XTP or SST might be a little short.

 

[MrChristopher]

PR also sells a full selection of MMP sabots http://www.prbullet.com/shop/products.p ... =1&nPage=2

The HPH-24 is very close in size to the Harvester black smooth, Its just longer so a 250gr XTP or SST might be a little short.

Thanks for the info,

I noticed yesterday that the gun shop had a bulk pack of black hornady sabots. Would these be any different/better than the red sabots that come with the SST's?

Looks like I have a few more days(maybe even a week) until I go out to line up. Weather is pretty bad here for a while.

 

[GM54-120]

Hornady black sabots could be a MMP HPH-24 or a HPH-12. The easiest way to tell is look at the bottom of the sabot. The number on the bottom of the HPH-24 looks like it is stamped into the mold. The number on the bottom of a HPH-12 looks like it is etched into the mold.

Ignore the color. HPH-12 on the left and HPH-24 on the right

No, they are not the same as the sabots that currently come with the SSTs. SSTs currently come with the MMP 3P-EZ which is much smaller loaded OD.

 

[MrChristopher]

I can order the harvester sabots off muzzle-loaders.com. They ship stuff to Canada for a decent price too.

I'll likely look into all this for next years season. Since hunting is a little over a week away I'm sure I'm hoping I will get a good enough grouping with SST's and the white hots for now. Next year I will likely switch to BH209.

It sucks that I need to buy a different breech plug. When I was in the store picking up my gun I saw it there for $50. I just figure for an extra $50 I might have been able to buy a higher model in a different brand. I only found this out after I had bought the gun and opened read the manual. Oh well tho....I'm sure it won't be a bad investment anyways.

 

[ShawnT]

I can order the harvester sabots off muzzle-loaders.com. They ship stuff to Canada for a decent price too.

I'll likely look into all this for next years season. Since hunting is a little over a week away I'm sure I'm hoping I will get a good enough grouping with SST's and the white hots for now. Next year I will likely switch to BH209.

It sucks that I need to buy a different breech plug. When I was in the store picking up my gun I saw it there for $50. I just figure for an extra $50 I might have been able to buy a higher model in a different brand. I only found this out after I had bought the gun and opened read the manual. Oh well tho....I'm sure it won't be a bad investment anyways.

You do not need a different Breech plug.

You ONLY need the other Breech plug if you choose to try Black horn 209 powder. All other powders (Loose or Pellet) work with your Current Plug.

 

[MrChristopher]

I can order the harvester sabots off muzzle-loaders.com. They ship stuff to Canada for a decent price too.

I'll likely look into all this for next years season. Since hunting is a little over a week away I'm sure I'm hoping I will get a good enough grouping with SST's and the white hots for now. Next year I will likely switch to BH209.

It sucks that I need to buy a different breech plug. When I was in the store picking up my gun I saw it there for $50. I just figure for an extra $50 I might have been able to buy a higher model in a different brand. I only found this out after I had bought the gun and opened read the manual. Oh well tho....I'm sure it won't be a bad investment anyways.

You do not need a different Breech plug.

You ONLY need the other Breech plug if you choose to try Black horn 209 powder. All other powders (Loose or Pellet) work with your Current Plug.

oh ok, thanks. I read somewhere it was needed for all loose powder. If it works with other loose then why not with Blackhorn?

 

[ShawnT]

Loose powders like Real Black Powder, Pyrodex and 777 are actually easier to ignite than Pellets.

Blackhorn is a totally different Powder. It is harder to ignite and requires more heat and pressure to get it to ignite reliably. I don't have a CVA but I think that the Flash hole in the Blackhorn Plug, and possible the Flash channel, is a little larger than the standard plug. There are guys that have modified the original Breech plugs like the one you have to be reliable with Blackhorn by Drilling them out and installing a Replaceable Ventliner. Ron Laughlin a member here had written up a tutorial on doing this mod and does them for others occasionally, but not sure about shipping to and from Canada. Maybe he will chime in unless he is out hunting.

If your Handy with a drill press check out this link to one of Ron's write ups.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21681&hilit=%2AVent+liner%2A

 

[MrChristopher]

Loose powders like Real Black Powder, Pyrodex and 777 are actually easier to ignite than Pellets.

Blackhorn is a totally different Powder. It is harder to ignite and requires more heat and pressure to get it to ignite reliably. I don't have a CVA but I think that the Flash hole in the Blackhorn Plug, and possible the Flash channel, is a little larger than the standard plug. There are guys that have modified the original Breech plugs like the one you have to be reliable with Blackhorn by Drilling them out and installing a Replaceable Ventliner. Ron Laughlin a member here had written up a tutorial on doing this mod and does them for others occasionally, but not sure about shipping to and from Canada. Maybe he will chime in unless he is out hunting.

If your Handy with a drill press check out this link to one of Ron's write ups.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=21681&hilit=%2AVent+liner%2A

Appreciate the info again! I think I would likely buy the replacement plug. But I'll look around first. I think I can get it off Cabela's for around $28 Canadian plus a few bucks shipping.

If Blackhorn isn't crazy expensive I'll be trying it next year. Cabela's lists it for $70 Canadian on their site. If that's the case I might just not bother.

 

[WV Hunter]

BH209 is definitely not cheap...and some places is quite expensive. Plus the can is only 10oz vs a 1lb can for Pyrodex or T7.

If I was you, I'd get it going with what you have this year so you can hunt. Then after the season get some loose powder and start experimenting with what shoots best in it. You can certainly try BH209, but the other powders will work very well - and you won't have to change a thing to use them.

 

[rangerod]

It's a shame that you have to pay that kind of price for bh. What you shoot in the future may depend on how often you shoot. Some shooters only shoot a few rounds a year. They take their gun out before hunting season to make sure it's still sighted in then go hunting. If this is the case for you the price of black horn probably wouldn't matter. On the other hand if you shoot a lot on a regular basis like a lot of the forum members do triple 7 would cost wise be a better choice. Same thing with the breach plug. If you don't shoot very much a bh breach plug would be the way to go. A vent liner wouldn't be worth the extra cost or bother.

 

[MrChristopher]

It's a shame that you have to pay that kind of price for bh. What you shoot in the future may depend on how often you shoot. Some shooters only shoot a few rounds a year. They take their gun out before hunting season to make sure it's still sighted in then go hunting. If this is the case for you the price of black horn probably wouldn't matter. On the other hand if you shoot a lot on a regular basis like a lot of the forum members do triple 7 would cost wise be a better choice. Same thing with the breach plug. If you don't shoot very much a bh breach plug would be the way to go. A vent liner wouldn't be worth the extra cost or bother.

Your first point is definitely my case. I'd likely take it out a month or so before hunting and take a shot or 2, then hunt, then put it away until the next year. Even then it's not guaranteed I'd be going black powder hunting every year. If I filled my tag in rifle season then I'd be done.

I am also debating just switching to black powder season all together, there's far less people hunting with black powder in my area than there is rifle. There's way too many rifle hunters around here anymore.

 

[rangerod]

I know exactly what you mean. In IA it's slugged shotguns. I quit the shotgun and now only hunt with crossbow and muzzleloader. The late season through Jan 10. 20 days long.

 

[ShawnT]

I use my muzzy in BP season and Gun season season anymore. We only had shotgun with slugs or Muzzleloaders for deer gun season in Ohio for years. I switched over to full time Muzzy hunting for both seasons, been that way for several years now. Never felt Under gunned or limited in anyway, actually I enjoy it more. I even have a couple centerfires that have never seen the woods yet.

Last year was the first year Ohio let us use Straight walled pistol/rifle cartridges in rifles. My Nephew asked me if I would buy a new centerfire rifle now, I asked him why would I do that?

 

[MrChristopher]

I use my muzzy in BP season and Gun season season anymore. We only had shotgun with slugs or Muzzleloaders for deer gun season in Ohio for years. I switched over to full time Muzzy hunting for both seasons, been that way for several years now. Never felt Under gunned or limited in anyway, actually I enjoy it more. I even have a couple centerfires that have never seen the woods yet.

Last year was the first year Ohio let us use Straight walled pistol/rifle cartridges in rifles. My Nephew asked me if I would buy a new centerfire rifle now, I asked him why would I do that?

You make a good point. I realized I could be hunting with my ML during rifle season here as well. If I end up liking it as much as I think I will I might just invest in better powder/bullet combos and maybe even a better gun down the road.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I use my muzzy in BP season and Gun season season anymore. We only had shotgun with slugs or Muzzleloaders for deer gun season in Ohio for years. I switched over to full time Muzzy hunting for both seasons, been that way for several years now. Never felt Under gunned or limited in anyway, actually I enjoy it more. I even have a couple centerfires that have never seen the woods yet.

Last year was the first year Ohio let us use Straight walled pistol/rifle cartridges in rifles. My Nephew asked me if I would buy a new centerfire rifle now, I asked him why would I do that?

You make a good point. I realized I could be hunting with my ML during rifle season here as well. If I end up liking it as much as I think I will I might just invest in better powder/bullet combos and maybe even a better gun down the road.

If you get started correctly and many here will help you with that, you'll find that you'll really enjoy hunting with the muzz. There's more than one on this site who use a muzz exclusively during the general/regular firearm seasons. With a few rare exceptions, the muzz is all I've used for decades, even though I live in an area where all CF rifles are used during the regular season, my choice is the muzz. Its all about confidence, which takes lots of practice to obtain but, once you become confident with your rifle and your abilities, you'll be just like the rest of us. When all your friends are going, bang, bang, bang, you'll be going, bang/flop. :wink:

 

[MrChristopher]

That's the result I'm hoping for! Depending on the weather I'll be getting out this weekend to do some sighting in.

As far as cleaning goes.....I couldn't find any of the recommended cleaners in any gun shop near me.....I did find something called Gunzilla.....it was the only one advertised for cleaning black powder and a guy working at the store highly recommended it.

Anyone ever heard of it or tried it?