Have modern Muzzleloaders become to modernized?

[Teeroy]

With all the post about BH209 prices and the countless threads about converting to smokeless, I can’t help but think about the advancement of muzzleloaders and propellants. I have shot smokeless Since 2006 and BH209 since it was introduced with no complaints and my wife doesn’t miss the smell from me cleaning my muzzleloaders from the days of pyrodex. I have 4 cans of Bh209 in my safe but decided to sight one of my Disc rifles in with some 777. Brought back a lot of good memories and had forgot about the smoke cloud and wondering if I made a good shot. My conclusion, more maintenance with 777 but not much difference in accuracy.

 

[dbowling]

I actually think 777 is easier to clean then BH especially if your not using 209 primers and getting a crud ring..
I only shoot BH209 in 1 gun now the rest are either real black or 777.

 

[.45er]

With all the post about BH209 prices and the countless threads about converting to smokeless, I can’t help but think about the advancement of muzzleloaders and propellants. I have shot smokeless Since 2006 and BH209 since it was introduced with no complaints and my wife doesn’t miss the smell from me cleaning my muzzleloaders from the days of pyrodex. I have 4 cans of Bh209 in my safe but decided to sight one of my Disc rifles in with some 777. Brought back a lot of good memories and had forgot about the smoke cloud and wondering if I made a good shot. My conclusion, more maintenance with 777 but not much difference in accuracy.

I too have pondered the technological advancements of muzzleloaders relative to how sporting they are. I've accepted their commonalities that whether if be a flinter or a scoped smokeless...you load from the muzzle and get one shot. If technology makes you a better shot then I'm all in.

 

[Teeroy]

I too have pondered the technological advancements of muzzleloaders relative to how sporting they are. I've accepted their commonalities that whether if be a flinter or a scoped smokeless...you load from the muzzle and get one shot. If technology makes you a better shot then I'm all in.

Good point

 

[wganz]

As Stephen King* wrote in his Dark Tower series**, "The world has moved on."
I totally grok having a traditional ML season set aside for those in leathers and flintlocks. But everyone doesn't have a set of buckskins nor the $3K for a custom flintlock. So, there is room in there for modern developments. As much as some don't want to hear it, that percussion supplanted the rock locks with few hold outs. We got too much to lose with infighting.

* yes, he is a despicable #Libtard and now just a pulp writer. which is doubly ironic in that he decried pulp horror writers in his last good book "The Stand".
** strange that the more popular that series became the less he wanted to finish it, it is my belief is that is due to the obvious conservative audience that enjoyed the main character, The Gunslinger, Roland

 

[michiganmuzzy]

As for just myself, using smokeless powder hasn’t made shooting or cleaning a muzzleloader any easier or more convenient. Just the opposite, more expensive and just as hard to find supplies. The guns are more expensive, the powders are just as expensive(except bh209), they use many of the same primers (LRMP or 209). Still have to clean the gun after shooting. I still cast my own bullets. Still precisely measure then pour powder down the barrel and seat a sized bullet on top of it. I think some one should build a smokeless roundball gun. That will be very kool.

 

[MrTom]

Modernized. Naw. Some people just need something to fret over. Or complain about.

 

[Mufasa]

The relentless march of shooting technology is akin to the onslaught of ATVs and UTVs out West over the past 20 years, as well as crossbows allowable in general "archery" seasons in many states now too, etc. I have a very close friend who is a 30+ year retired wildlife big game biologist out west and he states it pretty simply: "No doubt advances in technology and mobility make many more successful where otherwise they wouldn't have been, but hopefully these folks are aware there are still limitations to their own skills regardless of technology. Does using a magnified scoped, modern muzzleloader with smokeless powder equate equally to a traditional/primitive arm that the seasons were initially set aside for, obviously no. Does that mean it's unacceptable? Again obviously no if they're hunting ethically - the hunter still has to use discretion for every shot regardless, and if the number of successful hunters goes up for a given season (insert crossbows in archery season, scoped modern muzzleloaders in primitive seasons, or the recent "tactical" trend of uber-long range modern rifles during general gun seasons), it merely means less tags since we manage the herds on populations and buck/doe ratios."

Interestingly he's long stated the greatest concern he sees isn't technical advances, it's the propensity for hunters to take longer and longer shots as technology advances, to where bullet performance and accuracy in field scenarios (especially that he's seen with elk) just isn't consistent.

My own $0.02 for what it's worth: Infighting and segregation gain nothing. We can all march to the beat of our own drum, so long as we always remember WHY we hunt and always, always hold to ethical and realistic limitations of our own hunting (and shooting) abilities in real world field conditions.

 

[356]

One of the ways to keep our sport alive is to mentor new hunters using ML. This year I introduced four hunters to ML. Two were first time hunters, and all four are hooked. We need to practice R3 if we are to keep our niche alive.

 

[bronko220002]

One thing I wish would happen throughout the industry is the uniformity of bore diameters. This can vary from rifle to rifle even of the same model. Another thing which should be done is test barrels the same way CF rifle barrels are tested just for the safety aspect of preventing rupture.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

One thing I wish would happen throughout the industry is the uniformity of bore diameters. This can vary from rifle to rifle even of the same model. Another thing which should be done is test barrels the same way CF rifle barrels are tested just for the safety aspect of preventing rupture.

Get a Pedersoli instead of a CVA and your wish is granted.

 

[retrieverman]

I’ve done muzzleloading in reverse from many/most of y’all. I started with an inline, then smokeless, and now I’m dabbling in traditional muzzleloaders. If only traditional muzzleloaders were allowed during ML season, I would only hunt with my Hawken and have no problem with it, but if a state allows me to use an inline with a scope, I’m taking any advantage I can get.
I will admit there’s not much “primitive“ in either archery or muzzleloader hunting anymore.

 

[user 30185]

"My own $0.02 for what it's worth: Infighting and segregation gain nothing. We can all march to the beat of our own drum, so long as we always remember WHY we hunt and always, always hold to ethical and realistic limitations of our own hunting (and shooting) abilities in real world field conditions."

And this is why there will be such debate and infighting. Humans have no ethics in general.

 

[Scotts98rt]

Use what makes you happy, if legal in your state. Quit the in fighting. I'm sure most that complain about improvement in anything don't go to work on their horse. More likely their new f250 they bought to go out west they love because it is so nice. But they don't like what you use to get your animal.

 

[user 20307]

Where I live this has been a heated debate for some time. The advancements in archery equipment seems to go unnoticed. The question being is “where do we draw the line in what we regard as primitive.” Should we go back to throwing stones, spears or the use of sling shots? Archery has changed dramatically in my neck of the woods. When I started bow hunting it was done with a recurve or long bow. Shots were close and thoughts of Fred Bear swarmed in your mind as you stalked your prey. Another hunter sighting was akin to spotting Sasquatch. Then came the compound bow and with it homosasquatchish in larger and larger numbers. The hunting became more difficult for us traditional hunters and we soon but reluctantly joined the ranks. We went from seeing a lot of game and few hunters to a lot of hunters and few game. It was hard for us to see and grow accustomed to the change. I haven’t seen this change as radically in the muzzle loader realm as I have not always been a longhorn hunter. I have seen hunter numbers increase but not as radically as the archers. Technology is a good thing in most aspects, advancements in farming equipment, automobiles, the list goes on. The question comes back to “where do we draw the line?” Hunting has evolved just as automation has changed our daily lives. Population increase and shrinking wildlife habitat has not helped our plight either. Makes me ponder the question “what would Fred Bear say about the current hunting situation”.

 

[MrTom]

Makes me ponder the question “what would Fred Bear say about the current hunting situation”.

He'd probably spit broadheads.

My health has taken me from the archery hunting, but I have friends who bow hunt religiously. One called me last fall and related a story that happened to him just that evening. He'd gotten on stand at about 3 pm on some private that he'd paid hunting rights fees for and got settled in. About 4 another bow hunter came sneaking along with a stand and other assorted junk and commenced to put the stand about 75 yards away from him. After this guy got through making noise getting his ladder parts stand set, he walked along the field edge toward my buddy and found a tree about 15 yards away. He stepped the grass and twigs down them dropped his pants and a load. Said buddy was getting this whole episode on video. Apparently, this idiot actually dumped in the back of his pants and didn't realize it until he yanked them up at which point my buddy could not control his laughter. The other fool grabbed his bow on the fly while leaving the stand and ladder attached to the tree. The video was played for the property owner who said that the dumper had not gotten permission to hunt on the property so he went and gathered up the stand.

I spend a lot of time in the stand I gun hunt in ahead of the regular gun opener, but still during the bow season. This is on "no man's land", zero permission given to anyone to hunt during the bow or the regular gun season. In the last four years its absolutely unreal how many people think that just because its still green they can just walk in on private land and have themselves a little hunt. I hunt the first gun season and the bordering neighbor hunts the second gun season on his 40 but allows no other hunting. Since we do not interfere with each other we allow each other to use the other's property for hunting. The standing rule is, if you see someone, boot them. All of these trespassing archers come from another bordering neighbor's property, one that does not allow myself, the property owner where I hunt or the other neighbor we share hunting with, to hunt or retrieve deer if they get over there after being wounded. Three years ago I went up to sit for an evening and found three atvs parked side by side on the property I hunt and close to the permanent stand. I got picks of the registration numbers, then took a walk and rounded up 4 hunters and got their pictures as well. When they were gone I came off the hill. My camera was set up to date stamp so there was no doubt as to when the pictures were taken and when I left, I stopped at the house and dropped the card off for the property owner who took it to the sheriff's department the next day. A warden was called in too.

It's not just archers or gun hunters. Muzzleloaders have been chased out in recent past years as well. Having all these different seasons is simply a pain in the butt. Whether it's a money thing or a special interest thing the special seasons just make it that much more opportune for a-holes to trespass and the problems are getting worse especially around areas of high populations. Not one of these jerks I've had to toss was apologetic. Every single one of them thought they owned the world. We don't need any more seasons or new laws. What we need is some teeth in current laws that would make the problems that come with all these seasons less attractive to create them.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

And this is why there will be such debate and infighting. Humans have no ethics in general.

It’s too bad that you have no faith in humans. I have ethics as do so many others, here and elsewhere. I see the good, and bad, in people every day. It doesn't mean people have no ethics. You may just need to change your news feed to see that there are good people with good ethics everywhere.

My answer to the original topic question…

Have modern Muzzleloaders become to modernized?​

…Absolutely not!!!
It’s not the weapon, it’s the person using it. For whatever reason, use what you like, within the rules. If you don't like, or agree with the rules then work to change them. Condemning others for having different views is one reason why this country was created. We don't have to agree, we do have to live together in peace. Also we have to share and preserve our natural resources by working together.

 

[Ninering62]

It’s too bad that you have no faith in humans. I have ethics as do so many others, here and elsewhere. I see the good, and bad, in people every day. It doesn't mean people have no ethics. You may just need to change your news feed to see that there are good people with good ethics everywhere.

My answer to the original topic question…

Have modern Muzzleloaders become to modernized?​

…Absolutely not!!!
It’s not the weapon, it’s the person using it. For whatever reason, use what you like, within the rules. If you don't like, or agree with the rules then work to change them. Condemning others for having different views is one reason why this country was created. We don't have to agree, we do have to live together in peace. Also we have to share and preserve our natural resources by working together.

Great post brother, well said

 

[MrTom]

^^^^
Agreed!

 

[user 30185]

You need to get around more humans. Not your selected bunch of friends. That is the description of an echo chamber. What does news feed have to do with people being self centered and thinking they have a right to do what they please? Mr. Tom is playing both sides of the argument judging from his post ^^^.