Hodgdon

[Sideshow]

I was told they really didnt reccomend it for any bottleneck actually . I didnt know so thats why i called cuz of how bh is made i thought maybe .....?? But nope .

Interesting that you havent found any fps gains . Burn rate ???

 

[Sideshow]

Well they have load data on western powder site for cartridge rifle which includes 30/30

Many blackhorn specific custom builds have powder chambers in them to shorten powder column and keep barrel length down for large charges.

Dont see much performance gains or losses.

To me seems blackhorn is perfect for chambers or bottleneck cases since it's nitrocellulose based propellant.

I would think black and other subs explosives may respond differently in chambers or bottleneck and have negative results

Ive wanted a chamber for a bh build too . How much larger chamber have you tried ?? Will this also work , if kept smaller in length , for mild smokeless ??

 

[Sideshow]

Well they have load data on western powder site for cartridge rifle which includes 30/30

Many blackhorn specific custom builds have powder chambers in them to shorten powder column and keep barrel length down for large charges.

Dont see much performance gains or losses.

To me seems blackhorn is perfect for chambers or bottleneck cases since it's nitrocellulose based propellant.

I would think black and other subs explosives may respond differently in chambers or bottleneck and have negative results

Just found after a quick search an "article" for bh in rifle cases . Not really foumd as load data . Western HAS used it in bottleneck cases !!! Why when i called was i told different ???? It was used in a 300 win mag and gave 308 velocity . This is the round im most familiar with . I was given WRONG INFO !!!!!!! This kinda makes me a Bit Agitated comeing from THEM to be told NO it cant be used . I apoligize , but i was not told the truth when i asked . Its kinda a "survival" article . Many cartridges , modern , are tested . My feathers are quite ruffled for being lied to by whoever i spoke with . The good news i guess is it indeed can be done . The article was written in iirc 2016 , Before i called . He should have known that .

Thanks bestill for answering my post . I would have gone on believeing a lie .

 

[bestill]

They are the professionals but i can tell you blackhorn works perfectly in a chamber.
I have a 40 call woody with
.578 chamber i.d.
40 degree shoulder
.401 bore

The chamber does not increase pressure because of chamber but minimal gain due to shorter more efficient burn.

 

[bestill]

https://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/12/blackhorn-209-in-bottlenecks/

 

[Sideshow]

They are the professionals but i can tell you blackhorn works perfectly in a chamber.
I have a 40 call woody with
.578 chamber i.d.
40 degree shoulder
.401 bore

The chamber does not increase pressure because of chamber but minimal gain due to shorter more efficient burn.

Thank you . Thats a good thing the greater effiency . Im glad for the enlightenment on this . Very disgusted with whoever i spoke with . I tried to get it right . Can you also use a mild smokeless load in the rifle you speak of ??

 

[Sideshow]

https://blog.westernpowders.com/2016/12/blackhorn-209-in-bottlenecks/

Yep thats it . Thats what i found too . I didnt look up it before , just called and asked . Geez now i feel like an idiot . I DO NOT get why i wasnt informed of this by Westerns tech line ???

 

[bestill]

Guns im speaking of are all built for topend load pressures.

Very hard to chamber for blackhorn max efficiency and then shoot smokeless due to volume differential.

Chambered muzzleloaders are definitely not for the average guy.
Very load specific

 

[Sideshow]

Guns im speaking of are all built for topend load pressures.

Very hard to chamber for blackhorn max efficiency and then shoot smokeless due to volume differential.

Chambered muzzleloaders are definitely not for the average guy.
Very load specific

Ok thank you . That really isnt what i need for sure .

 

[bestill]

Hopefully I didn't take thread off course to far.

A little brain twister.

I have a very special rig that shoots a 350 gr projectile with blackhorn at 1800 fps and a different 350 gr projectile with smokeless at 3250 fps.

Same gun same chamber same load volume.
Bullet seats exactly same depth.

So obviously very dangerous ideal in wrong rifle.

But very cool done right.

Might add smokeless setup is very accurate at a mile and same gun shoots paper patch lead extremely well at lower velocity to 600 yds

 

[Sideshow]

Hopefully I didn't take thread off course to far.

A little brain twister.

I have a very special rig that shoots a 350 gr projectile with blackhorn at 1800 fps and a different 350 gr projectile with smokeless at 3250 fps.

Same gun same chamber same load volume.
Bullet seats exactly same depth.

So obviously very dangerous ideal in wrong rifle.

But very cool done right.

Might add smokeless setup is very accurate at a mile and same gun shoots paper patch lead extremely well at lower velocity to 600 yds

T8 sounds like it WONT be offered loose anyway so i think this info is best known . I appreciate your input on this . Such stuff is so hard to find out its ridiculous . Should not be this way IMO . Kept dumb isnt good for anyone .

By the way thats a pretty cool rig you got there . Sorry im just really upset with Westerns tech guy atm . Didnt mean to not recognize that rifles unique abilities right off in my reply . I knew a chamber would be awesome done right . Just never considered a small window for it .

 

[52Bore]

FYI
Just a little more info.

 

[Sideshow]

FYI
Just a little more info.

View attachment 7277

Thanks 52 bore . Too bad .

 

[45-70]

They are the professionals but i can tell you blackhorn works perfectly in a chamber.
I have a 40 call woody with
.578 chamber i.d.
40 degree shoulder
.401 bore

The chamber does not increase pressure because of chamber but minimal gain due to shorter more efficient burn.

Yes it is a shooter, even lead conicals

 

[JimA]

That's right, Michigan wants to keep it primitive!

There is nothing primitive about "black powder substitutes". Some are basically overpriced, low powered smokeless powder with ingredients to create smoke. Smokeless powder was the original black powder substitute!

 

[ported45]

Smokeless powder was a replacement for black powder; not a substitute. Substitutes are considered a 1:1 ratio to the original. Smokeless instead of a Sub at 1:1 often results in KABOOM!

 

[JimA]

Smokeless powder was a replacement for black powder; not a substitute. Substitutes are considered a 1:1 ratio to the original. Smokeless instead of a Sub at 1:1 often results in KABOOM!

You are correct to say calling it a substitute is wrong. The rest of my post is correct though. If you use a substitute it ain't primitive at all.
Most states no longer have a black powder season anymore. It's just a muzzleloader season. Other than producers of expensive substitutes and politicians thinking we are stupid enough to use smokeless in guns not designed to handle it, there shouldn't be too much objection to smokeless powder muzzleloaders.