How far is to far for deer

[alphaburnt]

Long range with a muzzle loader is a risky proposition when you start getting out to 150 yards in my opinion. Even with a solid rest and knowledge of your bullets trajectory, you must deal with an unknown, the wind. Wind presents many variables that are hard to exactly measure. Muzzle loader projectiles are not sleek and at the average velocities we send them off at are severely affected by relatively slight winds. Using the ballistic profile of the .430 300 gn Hornady XTP cited above, a 10 mph, 90 degree crosswind will move the bullet 5.5" off course at 150 yards. Winds from 8 to 12 mph are characterized as a "gentle breeze, leaves and twigs will move around" by a wind doping reference. Also, this particular bullet is one with a higher BC than most, one of the best you will find for a sabot/pistol bullet combo. At 250 yards, same wind conditions, 16.5" off course! This is not accounting for what is known as the "Bernoulli Effect", which will change your trajectory with the crosswind also. Now as far as energy projections, you should be above the 800 ft lbs that is commonly suggested for deer sized game out to 350 yards. Risky proposition as I stated, when you have wind to contend with.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Well, if one is interested in long range shooting, why shoot a muzzleloader? Sort of defeats the idea, it seems.
Plenty of other options that will stretch anyone's ability.

Bingo!

 

[Muley Hunter]

I've always wondered why hunters take long shots? Is it that you enjoy long range shooting more than stalking closer? Do you ever feel that long range hunting is very similar to shooting at the range? I mean you aren't defeating any of the animals senses. You're too far away for them to use them.

Is it that you can't get closer, or you just don't enjoy it? Just curious.


Now I will admit to doing long range shooting for coyotes, but I never considered it hunting. Simply removing the coyotes for some ranchers I know. It's something to do during the off season. I don't think I could ever kill big game that way though. That's me . I enjoy getting as close as possible, and trying to defeat the game on their terms. Yes, I have a gun, but I don't have the sight, hearing, or smell of the game. They win more times than I do, and I love that. They deserve to win. Their lives are at stake.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I've always wondered why hunters take long shots? Is it that you enjoy long range shooting more than stalking closer? Do you ever feel that long range hunting is very similar to shooting at the range? I mean you aren't defeating any of the animals senses. You're too far away for them to use them.

Is it that you can't get closer, or you just don't enjoy it? Just curious.


Now I will admit to doing long range shooting for coyotes, but I never considered it hunting. Simply removing the coyotes for some ranchers I know. It's something to do during the off season. I don't think I could ever kill big game that way though. That's me . I enjoy getting as close as possible, and trying to defeat the game on their terms. Yes, I have a gun, but I don't have the sight, hearing, or smell of the game. They win more times than I do, and I love that. They deserve to win. Their lives are at stake.

The problem that many seem to forget is, hunting conditions vary depending on where a person resides. Living out west like you do (IIRC), is a completely different ball game than hunting in the mid-west over large agricultural fields. Just like you may stalk closer to game, all the same principals come into play, such as the wind and its direction. Certainly you're going to stalk into or across the wind right? Well what some must understand is, some hunters have some of the same conditions, yet where they hunt over large open agricultural fields presents a completely different set of shooting requirements. Just as the hunter hunting thick timber or thick swamps, may only need a 30yd capable rifle, a hunter hunting over a large area of agricultural fields needs a long range rifle or the shots are longer range.
I notice this on every board. Hunters seem to favor their own situations and reply using them, when some hunters have completely the opposite hunting situations and need help for their situations.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Most say out west is where you have long shots.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Most say out west is where you have long shots.

How far you shoot out west? Are you hunting over a flat 100 acre soy been field, with no where to hide other than a single fence row? Not trying to start a xo match but, it has to be understood that of all the different shooters and hunters who ask questions on these forums, may have entirely different hunting conditions than many who may reply. I'm not saying its wrong to reply, it just needs to be understood that there may be a great difference in the hunting conditions.

For instance..... I live and hunt in the mid-west where many, many times I've harvested whitetails well over 200yds with production muzzleloaders. I hunt one specific property that shots will be at least 200yds and there's absolutely no way to get closer because of the prevailing wind and location. Easily hunting that property, I could end up with a shot to 345yds. Under the right conditions, do you think I could make that shot?

Granted, some shooters and hunters shouldn't be allowed to handle a pencil. However there are many who want to learn and not just 100yd or less shooting, because their hunting requirements are different. When someone asks if something is capable and it very well is or isn't, then it should be told so........ with conditions. As was posted, the wind plays a huge factor at long range, which should be explained and also suggested to research how the wind affects bullets at certain ranges. For those who don't shoot long range, it may seem odd to them that many do and do it very well. One just has to go down to the long range hunting and target forum right here.

Too many times I see someone being chastised, instead of educated. We should all work on that.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You misunderstood what I was asking. I'd be willing to bet most who hunt in Colorado take long shots. They sit on a mountain glassing, and take the shot without moving. It's even more popular to hunt muley's that way. Shots may be well over 500yds, but lets call it over 200yds.

So, i'm hunting the same land, but getting close. It's obvious that I choose to get close, and they chose to take long shots. The land is not forcing only one method to be used.

My question is why do they choose the long range shots? I know you can say why do I choose to get close, and I have an answer, but that isn't the question.

If you have the option to get closer, and that's almost always the case. Why do you take the long shot instead?

Like I said. Just curious.

 

[alphaburnt]

If it is in my effective range I will take the first shot I can. I like to be successful and experience tells me I am not the best at stalking up to game. I have no delusions of being the best marksman in the world, nor do I possess the skill to sneak up so close to my quarry that I could hit them with a stick. I guess I am a realist. Was that question for everyone?

 

[LarryBud]

If it is in my effective range I will take the first shot I can. I like to be successful and experience tells me I am not the best at stalking up to game. I have no delusions of being the best marksman in the world, nor do I possess the skill to sneak up so close to my quarry that I could hit them with a stick. I guess I am a realist. Was that question for everyone?

I agree with the above. I'm a pretty good shot and practice year around but will limit my MZ shots to 150 or so.

I'm think I'm a pretty good hunter but have realized I can't sneak up on a Whitetail. Sitting them out in an ambush is my game plan. I set my situation up for shots less than 150.

 

[walleye]

In Kansas I can hunt 2 weeks in September and another 12 days in December with a muzzleloader. Only 12 days with a rifle. I choose to hunt with the muzzle gun. No other hunters for miles in early season. They are at home waiting for rifle season. I have been doing it for 15 years. This was the only time I have ever had to shoot 200+. To many deer on the field, from 30 yards to 350 yards , no way to get closer. I could hunt the 12 days with the 7mag and not a question with a 20x scope if I can make a 260 yard shot from a solid rest. A Booner is I think 185". This deer was not that good, 170+ though for sure. I had never planed on shooting more than 225 yds so I passed on the 260 yard buck.

After doing some more internet searching , I think the suggestion of the Barnes 290 tmz would be much better choice as my new hunting bullet. I am at least going to consider moving to 250 as a max range.

I studied this forum years ago before I bought the first Triumph. There is a lot of collective knowledge on a forum like this.

 

[WV Hunter]

Good luck in your endeavors. Sounds like you are doing your homework, and obviously you can shoot well. I'm sure you'll get it figured out. There are plenty of folks here that have taken deer that far and farther, so it can certainly be done with proper prep. I couldn't do it... at least not now. I don't shoot enough. Someday I hope to be well prepared and confident at 200.

Btw, Boone & Crockett is 170" net. Awesome you have a chance at deer that size! I wish we did

 

[WV Hunter]

Well, if one is interested in long range shooting, why shoot a muzzleloader? Sort of defeats the idea, it seems.
Plenty of other options that will stretch anyone's ability.

I get the question...but some folks prefer the challenge of the ML at longer ranges. Also, in some states you can't even use a CF rifle at all, so ML or shotgun are your only choices. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[long shot]

You misunderstood what I was asking. I'd be willing to bet most who hunt in Colorado take long shots. They sit on a mountain glassing, and take the shot without moving. It's even more popular to hunt muley's that way. Shots may be well over 500yds, but lets call it over 200yds.

So, i'm hunting the same land, but getting close. It's obvious that I choose to get close, and they chose to take long shots. The land is not forcing only one method to be used.

My question is why do they choose the long range shots? I know you can say why do I choose to get close, and I have an answer, but that isn't the question.

If you have the option to get closer, and that's almost always the case. Why do you take the long shot instead?

Like I said. Just curious.

Because I can and I've already have done it the other way, bow etc. If you ever shot a long range match once you would understand

 

[Squeeze]

As far away as you can hit a softball consistently.

 

[Grouse]

Long range hunting doesn't impress me at all. Anyone can practice long range shooting and take game at long distances.

The guy who get close and continuously takes his game under 50 yards impresses me. Not everyone can do that.

 

[ENCORE50A]

You misunderstood what I was asking...................
If you have the option to get closer, and that's almost always the case. Why do you take the long shot instead?

Like I said. Just curious.

No, I don't believe I did and I think I explained it in the post above yours. There's no sneaking across a flat wide open 50+ acre soy bean field. There is no other option, short of taking photos. For me, I continuously practice long range shooting and have for years. I build my confidence in my rifle and my own shooting at distance. I learn to know what shot to take and what shot to pass for another day. Why? Because that long shot may be my only shot of the entire season/s.

 

[Muley Hunter]

You misunderstood what I was asking...................
If you have the option to get closer, and that's almost always the case. Why do you take the long shot instead?

Like I said. Just curious.

No, I don't believe I did and I think I explained it in the post above yours. There's no sneaking across a flat wide open 50+ acre soy bean field. There is no other option, short of taking photos. For me, I continuously practice long range shooting and have for years. I build my confidence in my rifle and my own shooting at distance. I learn to know what shot to take and what shot to pass for another day. Why? Because that long shot may be my only shot of the entire season/s.

Actually, you missed the part about having the option to take long shots, or get closer. If that doesn't apply to you, and it seems like it doesn't. You don't have to answer. My post was directed at those who choose long shots on purpose.

However, i will add something, and again it's not aimed at you. Over the years i've taught some friends to still hunt. They were curious about it, and I love teaching it to those who are interested. In the beginning I would just go hunting with them, and let them hunt their own style. Which was always long shots. On the next hunt they would get ready for another long shot. I would stop them, and ask why they didn't try to get closer. The usual answer was.........it's not possible. I'd say ok, go ahead and take the shot. They were successful sometimes, sometimes not. On the next hunt I asked if they'd like to try another style of hunting. They always said yes, and i'd start teaching them about still hunting. The more they learned, the more they liked it. In time, and it does take a lot of time to get good at it. The did nothing but still hunt. They took the scopes off their guns, and used open sights, or peep sights. They told me they never had so much fun hunting before. They also said they never dreamed they could get that close to game before.
I even taught on guy who was a sniper in the military. He said he loved the new challenge, and long shots had become boring, because he was so good at it. He compared long shot hunting to long shots on humans. Now he had to fool the animal, and really enjoyed it. All he does now is still hunt, and he's very good at it. Very good.

I guess the point i'm trying to make is even when you think you can't get closer. You might be able to if you have the desire to learn how to do it. I'm not trying to change anybody's hunting method, and i'm not saying do it my way. I'm just saying there are options if you're looking for them.

 

[walleye]

No, I don't believe I did and I think I explained it in the post above yours. There's no sneaking across a flat wide open 50+ acre soy bean field. There is no other option, short of taking photos. For me, I continuously practice long range shooting and have for years. I build my confidence in my rifle and my own shooting at distance. I learn to know what shot to take and what shot to pass for another day. Why? Because that long shot may be my only shot of the entire season

It maybe the only shot for the next 5 yrs at a big one. Likely he may never be seen again. I think that post kinda sums it all up.

I think the odds are I can make some improvements to move out to 250yds under the right conditions

 

[Lee 9]

Pete the open corn and bean fields in the Midwest provided me with more long shots than I preferred. I was shooting PRB out of a 54 caliber Hawken with 120 grains of Swiss or Pyrodex then and the only inline I had ever heard of was a 40 caliber I made out of a 22 action. I took several deer and a nice black bear at 180 yards which is the limit I set for my self because of the PRB loosing energy at longer distance.
I was using iron sights I made myself and since I shot 177 yd. competition I used the double square system and had the "0"s set at 100 and 177. and I had a rest built right on to my stand on the cornfield side. I did not shoot long if there was much wind.
Arranging the circumstances and the capability of the shooter make a major difference in what range is practical for any particular person. I know one person who gets so excited when he sees a deer that he shot strait up in the air, I don't expect he will ever get one.

 

[GM54-120]

Its really simple for me, if i cant practice at that range, i wont attempt a shot at that range. Next is impact FPE and FPS. If i have any doubt the bullet wont perform as intended, i wont take the shot.

My rifles and loads tend to be more capable than i am so my max is around 150 yards even though my non smokers can cleanly kill past 300 yards.