Improve group?

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

I can't help but SMFH at ppl when they come into the forum & ask questions about a problem they are having due to their inexperience, then they choose to not listen to those experienced ppl that reply to them with their best recommendation to fix their problem.
The first 5 replies ALL told you to increase your charge. Yet you don't seem to want to listen. What is your fear of that bullet fragmenting at any faster velocity based off of?

Now, sir, I don't think your response is very fair. I didn't say that I wouldn't try increasing the charge, I will. I was only sharing that I have been cautious about the charge because of concerns of a bullet fragmenting when pushed too hard- concerns I learned on this very forum. This is a discussion thread, so I was having a discussion!

I get that the Hornady likely won't, I was just explaining my logic. If the bullet were likely to fragment, then maybe I would accept a 2.5 inch group over a 2 or lower since the accuracy is still good enough for sure to kill a deer. If that is less of a concern then I'll try a higher charge and see what happens. Or, as El Diablo said, maybe I'll switch to an all copper bullet if I am that concerned about trying to maximize accuracy without concernes of fragmentation.

Harvester black crush rib sabot.

 

[Ninering62]

Now, sir, I don't think your response is very fair. I didn't say that I wouldn't try increasing the charge, I will. I was only sharing that I have been cautious about the charge because of concerns of a bullet fragmenting when pushed too hard- concerns I learned on this very forum. This is a discussion thread, so I was having a discussion!

I get that the Hornady likely won't, I was just explaining my logic. If the bullet were likely to fragment, then maybe I would accept a 2.5 inch group over a 2 or lower since the accuracy is still good enough for sure to kill a deer. If that is less of a concern then I'll try a higher charge and see what happens. Or, as El Diablo said, maybe I'll switch to an all copper bullet if I am that concerned about trying to maximize accuracy without concernes of fragmentation.

Harvester black crush rib sabot.

I just based my reply on what I read. You also did not say that you were willing to listen to the advice given & that you would increase your charge & test again either, in all fairness.
A well-made bonded cup & core bullet will do everything you could ever want or need it to do at any velocity you're going to be getting. Its all I'll use for my hunting.
I just started shooting some .40 200g XTP's myself. Now they are pistol bullets rated for 1200-1250fps & they are not bonded. So even at 2000fps they are going to separate or grenade. I'm pushing them at 2450fps & even hitting old 1/2" plywood at 100yds they are separating from the jacket, but they are shooting very well ( well under MOA ) accuracy-wise. But I will not hunt with them, plinking bullets only for me.
I understand that you were having a discussion & I absolutely agree that this is the right forum to have those discussions in, bc in here, you will get correct, accurate info & answers that you can take to the bank. Like you did get!
I asked in my reply " on what basis do you think your bullet will fragment "? Did you read that somewhere or are you merely blindly speculating etc??? Do you have a chrony? How do you know how hard you are pushing those bullets? With the stated charge, you are not pushing them anywhere close to " hard ".
I deff understand the concern for getting MOA accuracy with a bullet that will get the job done & hold together too. I am once again testing out diff bullets for the exact same reasons. I love shooting to my very core, but I'm a lifelong hunter so my bullet choices matter & over the last 35yrs of muzzleloading & 50yrs of CF shooting, I've seen plenty of times the results of using wrong or crappy bullets as well as the results of using the right bullets, well made bonded cup & core bullets. You were given good advice by very experienced guys that know exactly what they are talking about. I hope that you learn what you need to learn to get your prob sorted out so that you are happy with your bullet & your accuracy.

 

[BigBoresmokepole]

Up the charge and your group will get tighter I run 3 whitehot pellets and a 240 grn xtp in a sabot and mine hasn't fragged yet I will stay with that load forever its accuracy is excellent out to 200yrds.

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

I asked in my reply " on what basis do you think your bullet will fragment "? Did you read that somewhere or are you merely blindly speculating etc??? Do you have a chrony? How do you know how hard you are pushing those bullets?

I was basing it on the recommended velos published by Hornady and trying to stay below the max recommended. I don't have a chrony, the guess is based off the published velocity tables put out by Hogdon for BH209. To be honest, I am inclined to spend some more time at the range, try both original charge and higher charge, but let the barrel really cool down in between shots...let myself calm down too so that I know that the group reflects the best I can put into it.

 

[ElDiablo]

Some might recommend you try a drop tube as well….

 

[Ninering62]

Some might recommend you try a drop tube as well….

ROFLMFAO

 

[brad502a]

Are you shooting the XTP or XTP Mag bullets? I also agree up the charge to 70-75 grW of BH209.

 

[brad502a]

Here is a chart on the XTP, looks like you would have to drive it pretty hard to grenade it. Looks like if you started at 1800 at the muzzle you would be in velocity window by 25 yds. I have also attached BH209 load data, they state it obtained in a test barrel but doesn't specify the length. You are using a Wolf with a 24" tube which probably shorter than their test barrels. Just something to chew on.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Have you tried regular Harvester smooth black sabots? How is the loading pressure with the crush ribs. I tried the crush ribs but they loaded too easy and accuracy suffered.

 

[ElDiablo]

Yes, as @brad502a asks, Mag or the standard?

Here are Rons test results on those two if you haven’t seen them.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/300g-xtp-jugs.27101/
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/300g-xtp-magnum-80g-bh.29099/

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Have you tried regular Harvester smooth black sabots? How is the loading pressure with the crush ribs. I tried the crush ribs but they loaded too easy and accuracy suffered.

I have not...they do load pretty easily.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I have not...they do load pretty easily.

Yep, try the regular harvesters. Bet that alone will help you tighten up noticeably. Then try a little more powder.

 

[GregK]

CVA Wolf. 100 yards. 63 grains (w) BH209. Hornady XTP 300 grain .452 I should have let the barrel cook more between shots. Any advice for tightening this group or is this more or less best to be expected from this particular

Go to 84 grains weighed, Harvester EZ Load sabots, seat the bullet firmly on the charge, see what she does.

Greg

 

[BlackPowderGuy (AJHS)]

Yep, try the regular harvesters. Bet that alone will help you tighten up noticeably. Then try a little more powder.

Bought a pack yesterday...we will see how how my next session goes.

 

[rangerod]

CVA Wolf. 100 yards. 63 grains (w) BH209. Hornady XTP 300 grain .452 I should have let the barrel cook more between shots. Any advice for tightening this group or is this more or less best to be expected from this particular

If you are shooting in hot weather pay attention to your sabots. In hot weather sabots will soften and lose their grip on the rifling and groups will open up.

 

[ENCORE50A]

If you are shooting in hot weather pay attention to your sabots. In hot weather sabots will soften and lose their grip on the rifling and groups will open up.

Yup. The weakest link. Can you tell what propellant was used?

 

[45-70]

ROFLMFAO

so you like the pun also

 

[45-70]

Some might recommend you try a drop tube as well….

You talk good but the shooting not to good