Looking into a Knight.....

[Muley Hunter]

I'll be using a Redfield on the Triumph. It's a fine scope, and more than what I need.

However, the VX-2 is a better scope.

 

[Hornet22savage]

I have the Revolution 4-12x40 on my Elite 45 and I have no complaints about it at all. It was orginally on my KRB and has stood upto the punishing recoil of heavy loads of BH 209 and heavy bullets with no problems at all. I bought the Accu-Range model and have not really done any work as far as the drops go, but I did work up a ballistic sheet. I also just purchased a Revenge 6-18x44 and put it on my .243 for varmints, I can say that compared to the other scopes I have and the glass is really good.

 

[GregK]

Here's my take on my new Knight Mountaineer bare primer model. It is a well built, high quality firearm. However, it does have it's issues.

1) after about 10 shots on the range the primers begin to get stuck in the bolt & sometimes you have to remove the bolt to remove the primer.

2) sometimes the primers swell after being fired & they get stuck in the breech plug. I really have to yank the bolt back hard at times.

3) not all primers will work. Fiocchi 616 will NOT fit inside of the breech plug & therefore, you can't close the bolt.

4) Win 209's give my gun the slightest "click-bang"

5) at this point, Knight doesn't seem to be in any hurry to get me any help. I was referred to Gordy & told to leave a message.....no response & it's been a week. Then I was told to call Sam at the warranty center, who told me to call Gordy. Wonderful!!! I'm also no longer getting any response on the Knight Facebook page.

 

[sabotloader]

GregK

Sorry to hear about your primer situation... A little background on the BP - it was designed with the W209 in mind since it is the longest primer on the market. Using the W209 should give you great results. Most primers from over the waters will not work in the BP as those primers are designed on the metric system and are to fat to fit the primer pocket.

A couple of other thoughts, what do your primers look like when you pull them, are they clean like this. These are spent primers from my Knight.



Another thought for the primer getting caught in the bolt face - if you might be using mag primers and the flash channel in the BP is getting clogged - the intense gas pressure from the mag primer will drive it back into the bolt face, heck even a regular primer can do that if the channel is clogged. Might also explain your 'click - bang'. Primer body swelling is also an indication of excessive back pressure on the nose of the primer.

What powder are you shooting? BH can/will clog the flash channel quicker than the other subs, so you might have to spin the flash channel clean more often.

Hope I have presented you some thoughts....

 

[GregK]

All of those things make sense & with the W209 it may have indeed been a crud build up. I am used to not having to clean the plug on my CVA Apex but, I keep a drill bit & torch tip cleaning kit. The CCI Mag primers have worked perfectly as far as ignition but do come out dirtier than the W209. The W209 are cleaner than the others & I knew they were the longest & had the best chance of sealing. I have read some forums where people were told that Knight had re-designed the bolt face because of this issue & have sent out replacements. I don't know if that's true or not.

The owner of the company contacted me on Facebook a couple hours ago & said he will "try" to have Gordy contact me, so we'll see what happens. I really want to tell people how great Knight is, but I am wavering a bit on that right now. Also, as a shooter I like to share my experiences, good or bad. I am sure that we will eventually get thru this. It feels more like a learning curve going back to Knights after getting used to break actions & learning how to get the most from them.

 

[sabotloader]

GregK

There really is a learning curve with every rifle you pick up... I am sure you will get it all worked out.

For the Knight you will need a 5/32" drill bit to clear the flash channel... Do not use anything on or in the vent liner unless you really have to.... Compressed Air or even an aerosol can of Action Cleaner - Gun Scrubber or something like that is the best way if you need to - just keep metal out of the flash hole...

One other thing when you clean the bolt face you something like a tooth pick to clean the primer insert rails. They can collect and build up carbon there if you are getting blow back. With the Knight there is no real reason to use a Mag primer to ignite any powder.

 

[SCHUNTER]

Greg K, I can tell you I had stuck pimers in the bolt face with my first Mountaineer. I spoke to Sam and Gordy several times and they sent me a new bolt and breech plug. This fixed the stuck primers but created really bad blow by. The bolt, breech plug and primers were completly black. I sent that Mountaineer back to Gordy and he sent me a complete new Mountaineer. This Mountaineer is perfectly clean no blow by and no stuck primers. The only difference is the first Mountainner loved 130 grians of BH209 and a Barnes 290 TMZ in the supplied yellow sabot. The new Mountaineer liks 110 grains of BH 209 and the same Barnes but it really likes the Parker BE 275 with 110 grains BH209 and the MP HPH 12 sabot. It does not like the MMP short black that they come with for some reason.

I later purchased a Knight Ultra Lite and was very disapointed when I received it. The barrel was positioned all the way to one side in the stock and there was a hole in the stock where the red dot goes that indicates the gun is in the safe position. I was really upset and called Knight and chewed them out for sending out what was supposed to be their premier gun. They shipped me out a brand new Ultra Lite with out receiving the old one back. I later sent them the old one back.

So I feel your pain with your initial problems with the Mountaineer and Knight quality. I couldnt be happier now with both guns but it took too much work on my part to get there. I knew there would be some problems with the company and I accepted that to buy American.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[GregK]

Thanks Scott. I'm not gonna throw in the towel yet, but Knight has a problem here & they need to address it. The serial # on my gun is in the 400's so it is an earlier issue gun. I am hoping that they have a cure now. They have been aware of these issues for quite a while. I'll wait til next week to see if Gordy calls with a cure. If they want to replace the gun, that's fine. Just so we get to the bottom of it.

I have the needed drill bits &torch tip cleaners, I have special picks that I keep the primer rails clean with, but in all honesty, I don't think I should have to do that in order for the gun to work after 8-12 shots. Maybe I';m just spoiled from my CVA Apex. I've shot 70 rounds with no breech plug cleaning. I did it just to see if it would & it was fine. When I'm at the range, I want to concentrate on shooting & not wonder if I'm gonna have a problem.

I'll keep everyone posted as we proceed.

 

[jaybez101099]

Greg sorry to hear of your issuses. I sold my bolt action Knights and prefer to stay with my Encores/Triumphs and Accura. The old K.I.S.S works great for me.

 

[GregK]

Ok.....Gordy called today & said "Yes, they have had a problem & they have a new bolt & breech plug" So I pulled mine & sent them to him. Hopefully I'll have a replacement set soon & that will cure the issues. He did tell me that if my W 209 primers were getting dirty as well as the breech area, it definitely is not sealing. I'll report back as soon as I know something.

In the meantime, I'll be at the range with my Apex next week to sight in my new Leupold

 

[Squeeze]

I was out today with my mountaineer .32 conversion, It still has the original knight bare primer breech and standard bolt
BH209 today (although much lighter at 25 grns) but over 50 shots, never pulled or reamed the breech till home again.
not one misfire or slight hesitation with Win w209 every primer nice and clean, No sticks or hassles whatsoever.
But, in truth, when I finally DID ream the breech, it was pretty crud filled and took a bit extra fiddling.
the spent primers looked about like sabotloaders, but mine are gold instead of silver
I prob just have an older batch, I buy everything in bulk lots and go for a few years on stock usually

 

[GregK]

I was out today with my mountaineer .32 conversion, It still has the original knight bare primer breech and standard bolt
BH209 today (although much lighter at 25 grns) but over 50 shots, never pulled or reamed the breech till home again.
not one misfire or slight hesitation with Win w209 every primer nice and clean, No sticks or hassles whatsoever.
But, in truth, when I finally DID ream the breech, it was pretty crud filled and took a bit extra fiddling.
the spent primers looked about like sabotloaders, but mine are gold instead of silver
I prob just have an older batch, I buy everything in bulk lots and go for a few years on stock usually

I sure hope that is how mine turns out to be!

 

[dave19113]

The problems with the Knights kind of bother me a little bit. For what im spending on a Knight I can buy a CVA Optima V2 and scope and not have problems like listed above.

I called Carlos today and spoke with him again about options to go with. He flat out told me that he got better results with the Optima. He even said with his scope base and a Bushnell DOA 250 scope with long eye relief, I can will not have a problem with LOP.

 

[GregK]

Those are great guns & Carlos will NEVER steer you wrong! My first inline was an original MK85 & I have been using break actions for years now. I LOVE CVA! Anyway.....I wanted to try one of the American built Knights & I am sure that in time we will have these issues figured out. CVA's require a replacement plug or modification to the factory plug to shoot BH209 so I guess this is Knight's issue.

 

[dave19113]

Can anyone with a shorter LOP chime in on the Optima and how the scope base works for them...?

 

[Edwardamason]

Can anyone with a shorter LOP chime in on the Optima and how the scope base works for them...?

Happy too.

First off shorting the stock can be done one of two ways.

The easy way is simply order one.

http://www.cva.com/CVA-Store-View.php?id=551

The other way is a bit trickier.

You are going to have to really cut this sucker strait. And I mean strait. Then it takes a bit of craftsmanship on the inside. Those little tubes on the inside have to be recessed a little bit. In my case I had to run a tap down them and replace the supplied screws with replacement screws. It was a bit of work. If you are not use to cutting down stocks and done it quite a bit in the past I do not suggest you take this project on yourself.

As to your main question.

I suggest first you select a scope with very long eye relief. At least 4.o. 4.5 would be better. 5 would be killer. Mount the scope as far forward in the mounts as possible without touching the turret. This should provide you with plenty of room.

Remember the Wolf Compact and the ACcura MR comes with a 13 inch stock and you don't hear anyone complaining about them.

I have one of those too and love it.

 

[dave19113]

That def solves my problem.... If I can get one of the compact model stocks then im good to go


Thanks

Dave

 

[GregK]

Even though this post got hijacked, I thought I'd give an update on my Mountaineer. I had to ship my bolt & breech plug (on my dime) to Gordy at Knight & in 2 weeks I received new parts (apparently he went on vacation & no one else could send the parts) put her back together & the next morning I headed to the range. I was shooting 110gr BH209, a PT Gold 240's in CR sabots, & a brand new box of W209 primers. I fired 3 shots & the prier was stuck so tight that I could wiggle & yank on the bolt with all my energy & it refused to move! 3 shots!!! I pulled the trigger again & yanked on it hard while wiggling the bolt & it finally popped loose.

On Friday,
I sent a message to the owner on Facebook......no response yet

I called & left a message for Gordy with Mona......no response yet

On Saturday,
I left a message on the Knight rifles website.......no response yet

Sam at Knight already admitted to me that they know they have a problem but, he had no clue what the answer is!!!

Right now I own Knights flagship premier rifle, it's topped with expensive Vortex optics, & I can't even shoot it on the range to work up a load for my deer season. It would be much more useful as a boat anchor :x :x :x :x

 

[Smyrnagc]

Some time ago I had the same problem with W209 primers in my Knight LRH. I posted on the forum and found out that the W209 primers are pretty long, maybe the longest, as primers go. I switched to CCI209M primers, which is one of the primers that BH recommends, and didn't have any more problems. I noticed you use CCI primers on your other rifle, might want to try them.

 

[GregK]

Some time ago I had the same problem with W209 primers in my Knight LRH. I posted on the forum and found out that the W209 primers are pretty long, maybe the longest, as primers go. I switched to CCI209M primers, which is one of the primers that BH recommends, and didn't have any more problems. I noticed you use CCI primers on your other rifle, might want to try them.

Thanks for the suggestion. I had used CCI Mag in the Knight before the old bolt & the primers were getting stuck in the bolt face due to improper sealing from the shorter primers. Knight says their plugs & bolts are designed for W209 because they are the longest & they create proper sealing & eliminate the blow back that causes the primers to stick in the bolt, or the plug, & do make a lot bigger mess for cleaning. The bottom line is that Knight has put out a system that doesn't work properly & shouldn't have been released until it was right. I've shot for years & IMHO, no gun should act like this after 3 shots......especially with the newest upgraded bolt & plug.