New Muzzleloader Shooter - range cleaning question

[Ae1m]

I understand about a thorough cleaning after a shooting session, but when at the range experimenting with loads and bullets, do you do a quicker basic cleaning? I have Fire Hot pellets and BH209 ready while waiting for my CVA Accura to be delivered. Have loaded up 70gn by (by weight) tubes and an assortment of Powerbeats. Not looking for a debate about the bullets/powder with the exception that BH says this is the “cleanest” setup of powder or pellets.

Will a jag spear of patch and Hoppes 209 be sufficient every 6-7 shots?

I am longtime rifle/shotgun/pistol shooter (50yrs) but first muzzleloader. Want to get out before the rifle guys next year for white tails!

Thanks,

 

[MSalyards]

You do not need to swab after shooting BH209. However you will probably have to swab between shots with your other powder source . I use a semi damp patch with Windex with ammonia as it dries fast and use both sides of the patch. You may want to follow with a dry patch. Also quick clean your breech plug every 10-15 shots with the required drill bit. And make sure you have the proper breech plug for your BH209 powder.

 

[Saxtonyoung]

I generally use a run a slightly damp patch down the bore followed by a dry one between shots. You can dampen the patch with your own saliva or with a spray bottle of Windex.

 

[dbowling]

I use windex w/o ammonia have heard ammona is bad for barrels(for me better safe then sorry), barely wet patch down and back then other side followed by dry patch same way this is for black powder/777. B209 no swabbing and clean flame channel w/drill bit every 10 shots unless really hot loads then every 5-6 shots.

 

[Travis299]

When I sight in or check my Accura V2 I do it with a clean bore because that is the way I will be hunting with the rifle. Some folks like to start with a dirty bore, firing off a couple of primers before loading. JMHO

 

[MSalyards]

Why put up with the expense and ignition problems of BH209 when 777 is a superior powder I guess it just drinking that BH209 kool-aid.

I use windex w/o ammonia have heard ammona is bad for barrels(for me better safe then sorry), barely wet patch down and back then other side followed by dry patch same way this is for black powder/777. B209 no swabbing and clean flame channel w/drill bit every 10 shots unless really hot loads then every 5-6 shots.

I read a story from the owner of Lilja Barrels who said he soaked his barrels with ammonia based copper solvent over night with absolutely no effect what so ever. I'm not sure what is considered a really hot load . My first year I shot 77 weighed gr of BH (110 by volume)and this year I moved up to 84 weighed gr (120 gr by volume) , Used the same cleaning process . But I did change primers from Win 209's to CCI mag.

 

[Idaholewis]

I read a story from the owner of Lilja Barrels who said he soaked his barrels with ammonia based copper solvent over night with absolutely no effect what so ever. I'm not sure what is considered a really hot load . My first year I shot 77 weighed gr of BH (110 by volume)and this year I moved up to 84 weighed gr (120 gr by volume) , Used the same cleaning process . But I did change primers from Win 209's to CCI mag.

I read that same thing, and spoke of it LONG ago. I have even used Straight Janitorial Strength ammonia in Barrels to Strip them of Copper, through a Bore Guide as to not get any on the Exterior and in the Action. I have been using Ammonia based Copper Cleaners for MANY MANY years, My Rifles are in TIP TOP Shape, And nail drivers, Be it 50 Yards, or 1,100 Yards


Q. What does Lilja Rifle Barrels think of the use of bore solvents with ammonia?
A. While we’re aware of “bad press” associated with the use of cleaners with ammonia as part of the solution, we have never seen any damage in one of our barrels caused by the use of ammonia. The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch’s Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch’s solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope.

 

[Squeeze]

ammonia itself wont corrode steel, but it reacts with the carbon residue from the gunpowder, and one of the byproducts is a sodium (basically a salt) it is in very minute quantity. This is easily removed by almost anything, and typically remedied in the final oiling swab.
Many cleaners, ingredient list include some percentage of a form of ammonia.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

My advice is to use BH209, and not put anything else in your rifle.
Like black powder, the other substitutes contain Potassium Nitrate as the oxidizer, which is corrosive to steel.

Based on the MSD sheet, BH209 is a modified smokeless powder.

 

[WV Hunter]

I don't swab using BH209, but you could use a spit patch or windex patch.
To me the beauty of BH209 is NOT having to do that between shots, but I get that some folks like to. As mentioned, after 15-20 shots you may want to check and drill your BP. I can go 20 with no issues, ymmv

 

[Ae1m]

My advice is to use BH209, and not put anything else in your rifle.
Like black powder, the other substitutes contain Potassium Nitrate as the oxidizer, which is corrosive to steel.

Based on the MSD sheet, BH209 is a modified smokeless powder.

Thanks, I’ve pretty much settled on BH209 after reading a lot. Everyone seems to agree it’s the cleanest and I have loaded up 20 tubes with a variety of loads (70-85gn by weight) to experiment with. As it’s kind of hard to find around here, I also have a supply of white hots which also seem to be the choice for cleanliness. My barrel is the CVA nitride and I am thinking of pulling a snake and then a patch or 2 with solvent and then a dry one at the range. Thorough cleaning at home later. I am settled on Powerbelts for ease also. I’ll see what works best for me at up to 100yds, in the woods of MA and NH, we don’t get long shots at white tail.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Thanks, I’ve pretty much settled on BH209 after reading a lot. Everyone seems to agree it’s the cleanest and I have loaded up 20 tubes with a variety of loads (70-85gn by weight) to experiment with. As it’s kind of hard to find around here, I also have a supply of white hots which also seem to be the choice for cleanliness. My barrel is the CVA nitride and I am thinking of pulling a snake and then a patch or 2 with solvent and then a dry one at the range. Thorough cleaning at home later. I am settled on Powerbelts for ease also. I’ll see what works best for me at up to 100yds, in the woods of MA and NH, we don’t get long shots at white tail.

White Hots also contain corrosive Potassium Nitrate.

IMR White Hots SDS Sheet.pdf (muzzle-loaders.com)

.

 

[Ae1m]

Thanks for the info. It sound like White Hots and 777 are close based on what I've read. Are there other pelletized products worth looking into? I think I am going to shoot mostly BH209 based on cost, cleanliness, and the ability to fine tune the load (as opposed to 2 or 3 pellets). But in the field, it might be quicker and easier especially for our cold weather white tail season to reload pellets. I found some quick-load plastic tubes at Cabela's that hold the podwer, bullet, and a primer for quick handy reload.

 

[deermanok]

I've used those tubes, speed loaders for years. Biggest problem I have with them is remembering which pocket I put them in.

 

[GM54-120]

I find it no harder to pour powder from a tube than 2 pellets. Pellets still need to be stored in something. I imagine if you had to reload while laying down then pellets might be easier.

Loose powder takes more time to measure but that can be done at home and field/range loads carried in tubes. Pellets offer poor fps per dollar spent. Loose Triple7 is far cheaper per shot. Even BH209 is cheaper per shot if not getting gouged at Cabelas pricing. Even then its very close when adjusting for fps.

Both Pryo and T7 pellets were made to replicate 100grV of loose Pyrodex. Around 85-90grV of loose Triple7 will match that speed. A bit less BH209 is needed.

I am however not a huge fan of Powerbelts with BH209. FPS seems to be less than the same weight bullet in a sabot. I would at least step up to the 300gr or heavier PB. Anything less is very light for caliber.

 

[Neumonic]

I find it no harder to pour powder from a tube than 2 pellets. Pellets still need to be stored in something. I imagine if you had to reload while laying down then pellets might be easier.

Loose powder takes more time to measure but that can be done at home and field/range loads carried in tubes. Pellets offer poor fps per dollar spent. Loose Triple7 is far cheaper per shot. Even BH209 is cheaper per shot if not getting gouged at Cabelas pricing. Even then its very close when adjusting for fps.

Both Pryo and T7 pellets were made to replicate 100grV of loose Pyrodex. Around 85-90grV of loose Triple7 will match that speed. A bit less BH209 is needed.

I am however not a huge fan of Powerbelts with BH209. FPS seems to be less than the same weight bullet in a sabot. I would at least step up to the 300gr or heavier PB. Anything less is very light for caliber.

Always listen to GM-54, I have learned allot from him and many others over the years.

I shoot BH out of my Accura and have my measured load designed for weight of bullet sabot combo, 90 grains measured for 250/260 grain Barnes T-EZ or Harvester Scorpions and 100 grains measured for 300 grain Harvester Hornady XTP’s.
Ditch the powerbelts & whitehots, there is a reason your CVA manual recommends them both and it isn’t for your benefit but theirs.

Range: shoot 6-10 shots of BH and then run a wet patch of your choice then dry patch a few times then shoot 6-10 more times. Base the number of shots between cleaning on ease of reloading bullet/sabot and accuracy. When patching the barrel might as well give the breechplug a quick clean to keep flash channel clear.

Congrats on your new ML’er, comeback and let us know how your first range outing goes!