QLA -- Ballistic Bridge Sub Base

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Haven’t heard that word since before my father passed. Made me chuckle. I’ll have to try and use it a little bit. It needs brought back into everyone’s vocabulary.

Ron, do you think the BB is able to swell enough as it enters the QLA to slow that “pass of gas” so as to not have as much effect? I know the sabots I have picked up after shooting, the bases are easily swelled .050” over sized. Never measured one, they appear that way anyhow.
 
So.......notdoctor, how do the sub base attenuate the propensity of cattywampusness?

Maybe the sub base expands to fill that gap more readily than your garden variety sabot(?) The sub base looks to be deeper than the hollow of a sabot. Maybe the use of the sub base mitigates any possible kittywampusness in the loading process, which would ameliorate any tendency for cattywampusness(?) Maybe the Ballistic Bridge Sub Base is made by elves using magic and love.

I don't know. I'm the new guy. 😬
 
jcnull2305 - I really believe you have diagnosed the problem of the TC - QLA's. As we have found out many times before many, but not all, QLA's are not centered on the bore. With that your theory works right in.

Many years ago I tried to create a drawing of the suspected problem, which follows along with your thoughts.

TC-QLA-1.jpg


Most TC's with the QLA's will shoot sabots really well, even an off centered QLA can shoot Power Belt bullet well.

I believe as you are thinking the ability of the sub-base to flair to the size of the QLA with out leaking a large amount of gas to one side or the other of the projectile is the reason the sub-bridge works in this case. Plus an added advantage is the base is not attached to the bullet so it seems not to cause the bullet to veer in one direction or the other.

I really wish I still had one of my Omega's or even Triumph's that I use to have just to try Ron's discovery. Back at the time when I had both types of TC's I really wasn't shooting conicals and certainly had not even tried the sub-bases if I knew they might even exist.
 
This thread has me thinking: I have a QLA on an Oregon Barrel Company Barrel. I've been shooting conicals through it for more than 20 years, and it shoots them well. I wonder if that's because OBC took better care to machine the QLA centered to the bore.
 
...I also haven't done any serious accuracy testing with it. Maybe I should do some testing, and find that I could get better. I'll remove the QLA, too
 
Ron, that's where i got it wrong then (reading comprehension(?)). I thought the sub bases were used in conjunction with sabots :rolleyes:. However, I think that the gas passing theory still holds water.

When you were using wads, did you use a higher caliber (like .54 wads in a .50)? I was wondering if that would have a better effect. Maybe fill the QLA Gap enough to seal the gasses as the bullet passes through.

- Jim

I just realized that "knotdoc' was me. I was looking for another post by someone going by Knotdoc.
 
This thread has me thinking: I have a QLA on an Oregon Barrel Company Barrel. I've been shooting conicals through it for more than 20 years, and it shoots them well. I wonder if that's because OBC took better care to machine the QLA centered to the bore.

TC chooses to bore their barrels in a different manner than most barrel manufactures. This procedure can lead to the barrel not being centered at the muzzle. I am sure they felt it would have a negative in trying to sale a ML. Their answer was to create the QLA Centered on the muzzle. Actually they also felt the QLA would aid the shooter in loading the sabot/bullet into the bore. As mentioned QLA works well with bullets using a sabot but did lead to problems when shooting conicals.
 
Good information. If the wads don't work, I'll have to get some of those sub bases, too
 
In any case, after reading this thread, and another regarding the QLA and other such devices, I think I'm going to take my rifle to a Smith, and have a QLectomy...

See what I did there, Ron? Doctor humor. Bad doctor humor.

-Knotdoc Jim
 
A forum name change coming soon??? Lol
I don't know about that, SD. I mean, "Knotdoc" could carry the implication that I am some sort of wizard with knots, and I can barely tie my shoes. Plus, I don't even have a lab coat to update my profile pic. Additionally, upon learning of my lack of knot-knowledge, someone may then insist that I change to "NotKnotDoc." Then, God forbid I tell a Knock-knock joke on the forum - I'd have to be "NotKnotDocKnockKnock."

Plus, when my daughter graduates from medical school, do I change again to add "DocPop?" What if I found out that there was some sort of mistake at the hospital, and we took home the wrong kid??? Would I then be "NotDocPop?" And if the previous conditions articulated above carry over, I could end up being "NotDocPopNotKnotDocKnockKnock." It never ends.

All this because I paraphrased Peter Bergman from a 1986 Vicks Formula 44 commercial...

Maybe just call me 'Jim'

Wow - I got a little too far in the weeds on that one. Back to topic...

So, uh, Them QLAs is real bad, huh?
 
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.........So, uh, Them QLAs is real bad, huh?

We raised our children in Montana. The boy, and i hunted elk, and deer, antelope, pheasant, and grouse together some 40 years in Montana. Our parents grew old, and sick here in our birthplace. We moved back to care for them.

The only time the boy, and i hunt together these days is when he travels here to hunt deer with a muzzle loader. He uses my rifles. These are precious times. He has probably loaded a muzzle loader no more than ten times total. The QLA makes his inexperience tolerable. He shoots a 45 caliber bullet in a 50 caliber rifle in a sabot.

The bullets in a sabot are accurate when shot from rifles with a QLA.

For me, the QLA is a pain. For the boy, the QLA makes for an enjoyable hunting experience. For us, the QLA helps make for precious hours together, just like the old days.



Shooting 50 caliber bullets in a 50 caliber rifle, with a QLA, has never worked. However, it can, does work, if one uses a sub base instead of a wad.............

Right now i have three Omega rifles with the QLA removed. They shoot all kind of bullets accurately using sabot or wad. Other Omega rifles have the QLA still. They shoot bullets in sabot real good. Now we can shoot bullets without sabot, with QLA, using the sub bases.

Seems there is nothing bad..............
 
My goofy sense of humor aside, I do want to thank Ron for starting this thread. I've had my Hawken for nearly 25 years and honestly had no idea that the T/C QLAs were so problematic. I appreciate learning about the Ballistic Bridge Sub Base because it gives me another option over wads and sabots.

My Hawken is a .54, so I'm kinda a$$ out there, but the barrel is made by the Oregon Barrel Company, so maybe their manufacturing techniques are better. I'll have to do some serious accuracy testing.

My other ML is a Traditions Vortek LDR. It's a .50, and it has what they call the Speed Load System. This thread had me looking over other related threads, and I've found that other manufacturers did not have the same issue with counter-bore load assists as Thompson. However, I can use the Sub Bases in the Vortek. And if the Hawken won't shoot with the Oregon Barrel, I'll cut the damn thing off.
 
Ed, Do You and Bobby5 realize this was Last years Turkey’s? But since neither of you Congratulated Hatchet Jack Last Year for this accomplishment, It’s better now than never :lewis: 😁
I clean them with denatured alcohol and dry them before use.
have zero experience with a smoke pole and all the stuff that goes along with it, as I've been an archery only hunter for years. I'll be asking lots of questions from yall, and feel the only stupid question is the question I don't know the answer to and refuse to
About the only thing I haven't liked about my carbine with it's short 20 or 22 inch barrel, (I have to measure it again), is that it's pretty much the same as shooting a 12 gauge with slugs.
I'm hoping to find a bit of a lighter bullet that will perform well for me.
Some younger Marines that told me they don't put quite as much emphasis on it as they used to.

Back in the day you had to be proficient from a prone, sitting, squatting, kneeling, and offhand position.

With, and without the use of a sling. Preferably with.

Which is not to say that the Marine Corps doesn't have more properly trained rifleman, percentage wise, than the Army does.

After Vietnam the Army pretty much stopped teaching the use of the sling. In 1976 when I took basic, it was barely touched upon.
I have learned from 3 of These Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels that they are EXTREMELY Capable, and then Some. I do NOT believe for 1 Second that i have 3 Fluke Barrels, I whole heartedly believe that all of these Old TC Barrels Will Shoot Just like this, you simply have to Feed them Correctly, And do your Part of Course.

I will say that I believe 1 of the MOST IMPORTANT Parts to getting the Most out of these 1:48 Twist Barrels is PURE LEAD, And i mean a KNOWN Source of “Certified PURE LEAD. If the Lead has ANY Hardness in it, I believe Accuracy will Suffer with these 1:48s, My GM LRH Fast Twist Bullet Barrels on the other Hand will Shoot any of the Well known/Used Alloys Well, I have Even Shot Wheel Weight Hard Lead in my LRH Barrels with GREAT LUCK, But that WON’T Happen in these 1:48 Twists!!

Back when i first Started in ML, I tried HARD LEAD Paper Patched, 9 to 9.5 BHN in my Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels, TOTAL DISASTER!! I couldn’t have Hit a Volkswagon Bus 2 Times in a Row, unless it was an Accident, That’s NO JOKE! I simply didn’t understand? I felt like Lead was Lead, And a Muzzleloader Should Shoot Any Form of Lead Equally well? I was Wrong, VERY WRONG! I Don’t remember trying Hard Lead Grease Groove Bullets back then? I believe it was Only Paper Patch? And that was back when i was HARSH Sizing Bullets (Sizing an Oversize Bullet with the Paper Patch on it) I found Paper Patches Scattered all the Way up to my Targets, and Even Behind my Targets From Sticking, And Riding the Bullets. Process of Learning :)

Keys “That i feel” to success with Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels

First and Foremost is YOUR ability to Anchor in and Shoot Well. Simply put, Your Rifle Can NOT do it By itself, You need to Learn how to Drive it!

#1 Excerpt from “Breaking In a Barrel” by Lee Shaver:
Several years ago, I developed a process for breaking-in barrels for lead bullet use
that eliminated the afternoon of shooting and cleaning with jacketed bullet. It
began because I would occasionally have to get bad leading out of a barrel for a
customer, and when you charge what a gunsmith must charge to stay in business
you don’t want to spend an afternoon scrubbing the lead out of a customer’s gun.
And I’m sure the customer would rather not pay for said services.

What I learned was that when scrubbing lead out of a barrel, I could run a tight oily
patch through a few times and then take the patch off the jag. I would then unroll a
little 0000 steel wool and cut a piece the size of the patch. Place that over the
patch and then run it all through together. (The proper fit is when you have to
bump the rod a few times with the palm of your hand to get it started in the bore.)
When you shove that steel wool over a patch through the bore of a badly leaded
barrel, it may sound like paper tearing as the lead is ripped out of the barrel in a
pass or two. I can clean the lead out of the worst barrel in about ten or fifteen
minutes that way, and an average leaded barrel will be clean in a few strokes.

After using this technique for a while, I began to notice that the rifles that I was de-
leading that way seemed to lead less afterwards, which got me to thinking. We use
fine steel wool on the outside of old guns all the time to do some cleaning or spot
rust removal, and it does not damage the surface of the steel. It just scrubs it.
Which lead me to consider the fact that we are trying to break in a barrel by
smoothing the surface without cutting, and it seems to me that process would go
much quicker if we used something on the inside of the bore that was closer to the
hardness of the barrel instead of lead or copper. So I started trying the steel wool
and oiled patch technique on new barrels before shooting them. I use it about as
tight as I can get in the bore and wear out a steel wool pad or two in about 15
minutes, then I go and shoot the rifle.

How well does it work you might ask? On a few occasions, I have built a new rifle
and taken it to a match without ever having fired the rifle. All have performed
flawlessly in their first match and several times I won the match or set a record
with them. On one occasion, I set a new 300 yard range record with the first 13
shots out of a barrel. This method has become a service we offer to our customers
here in the shop and I have shared the technique many times with others.

So the next time you get ready to shoot that new rifle, just remember it is important
to break in a barrel properly, but if the operation you are doing to the barrel cuts –
it is not breaking it in. It may be making the barrel smoother, but to break the
barrel in you need to polish the bore by burnishing not cutting either by shooting it
or scrubbing it.
Lee Shaver

#2 Pure Lead Bullet, and i mean KNOWN PURE LEAD, High Quality Cast with SHARP Bullet Bases, That All Weigh the Same, I shoot for a 1/2 Grain, 1 Grain MAX
#3 A Good Proven Quality Bullet Lube, I have found Thinner is Better
#4 An 1/8” Wool Felt Over Powder Wad, Either Correct Bore size, or Next Size up (Oversize, 54 in 50 Etc.)
#5 Quality BlackPowder, Precisely Weighed

Follow those Steps, And i have NO DOUBT your 1:48 Twist Barrel Will COME ALIVE.
I don't know about that, SD. I mean, "Knotdoc" could carry the implication that I am some sort of wizard with knots, and I can barely tie my shoes. Plus, I don't even have a lab coat to update my profile pic. Additionally, upon learning of my lack of knot-knowledge, someone may then insist that I change to "NotKnotDoc." Then, God forbid I tell a Knock-knock joke on the forum - I'd have to be "NotKnotDocKnockKnock."

Plus, when my daughter graduates from medical school, do I change again to add "DocPop?" What if I found out that there was some sort of mistake at the hospital, and we took home the wrong kid??? Would I then be "NotDocPop?" And if the previous conditions articulated above carry over, I could end up being "NotDocPopNotKnotDocKnockKnock." It never ends.

All this because I paraphrased Peter Bergman from a 1986 Vicks Formula 44 commercial...

Maybe just call me 'Jim'

Wow - I got a little too far in the weeds on that one. Back to topic...

So, uh, Them QLAs is real bad, huh?

You are going to fit in just fine in this forum. We can see you have what it takes! :roll:
 
No need to mess with the front sight. Problem solved.

The sub base makes the Omega rifles with QLA shoot 50 caliber bullets from 50 caliber rifles accurately. Instead of cutting off the QLA from the Omega rifles; one can leave the QLA, and either shoot 45 caliber bullets in sabot, or shoot 50 caliber bullets using the sub bases for a wad.
 

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