Substitute powders?

[Bad Karma]

Looking around for a reasonable backup plan. Locally it seems like T7 is always available and not unreasonable so I’m considering it in case I run out of real powder. I would be using it with bullets primarily. Maybe the odd patched round ball. What kind of experience have you fellas had w Triple 7? Good, bad? Indifferent? Does it require anything special in terms of ignition, loading and shooting? Thanks for any experience you care to share.

 

[Fyrstyk]

T7, just like the other substitutes requires a hotter flame for consistent ignition, that is why it is not used in flint locks. It generally burns somewhat hotter, so it is recommended to reduce volume loads bu 15% and work your way up from there if necessary. T7 burns pretty clean, but can some times leave a very hard crud ring at the top of the powder charge. A good soaking with water and maybe the use of a nylon bristle brush will usually remove the crud ring.

 

[Ninering62]

Looking around for a reasonable backup plan. Locally it seems like T7 is always available and not unreasonable so I’m considering it in case I run out of real powder. I would be using it with bullets primarily. Maybe the odd patched round ball. What kind of experience have you fellas had w Triple 7? Good, bad? Indifferent? Does it require anything special in terms of ignition, loading and shooting? Thanks for any experience you care to share.

In my .40 TC Seneca I only use T7fff with #11 caps & shoot both cast & jacketed bullets out of it with no probs or FTF's at all. In my .45 Accura V2 I'm mostly using BH 209 but the T7 was 22.00 per Lb. & GT bullets are fantastic for hunting & bench rest trigger therapy too. So I have a 91gr W T7fff with a 255grGT cast HP bullet & an .060 veggie wad with a 209 primer & its awesome out to the 200yds I've shot it at. The T7 does create a rather hard crud build up after a cpl repeated shots. The hard veggie wad does a good job handling that. I use 1/8" felt wad for BH 209 charges or no wad. I've even loaded my BP 12ga dbl barrel with T7.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ve heard about the crud ring but hope that can be mitigated with a damp swab between shots. Is it sensitive to seating pressure? seems I recall some chatter about that. That and the possible ignition problems are the two big concerns I have currently. I usually use only Remington 11‘s for rifles, 10’s for pistols... guess it’s time to get my feet wet. Thanks for the response Nine!

 

[Ninering62]

I’ve heard about the crud ring but hope that can be mitigated with a damp swab between shots. Is it sensitive to seating pressure? seems I recall some chatter about that. That and the possible ignition problems are the two big concerns I have currently. I usually use only Remington 11‘s for rifles, 10’s for pistols... guess it’s time to get my feet wet. Thanks for the response Nine!

Yessir, & the spit patch or windexed patch between shots does handle the crud ring just fine.

 

[bstorric]

I use t7 in my TC hawken and have good results. I also use musket caps to help ensure ignition. I do think it’s a little cleaner than regular black powder though. Cleans up pretty easily. It’s also supposedly less prone to hydration so it should perform better in rain/snow. But good old fashioned BP is hard to beat (and sometimes hard to find locally)

 

[Bad Karma]

I ran several cylinders through an old army today. 40 grains under the 45-195C from Accurate molds. I was shooting at a stump 50 yards away and shooting offhand it will hold minute of 10” juniper stump all day long. Much less fouling than Swiss, cleaned up easily.

 

[Danno]

Only if desperate would I again use it. Years ago I bought 2# of it for my Encore 209x50. For whatever reason, it would develop the dreaded crud ring 1st shot on a clean barrel. It was almost impossible to get the second bullet to the powder, and I found that the bore had to be brushed after each shot. I still have the better part of that 2#. Goex Clean (or was it Clear) Shot worked great but that got discontinued for some reason.

 

[Idaholewis]

I ran several cylinders through an old army today. 40 grains under the 45-195C from Accurate molds. I was shooting at a stump 50 yards away and shooting offhand it will hold minute of 10” juniper stump all day long. Much less fouling than Swiss, cleaned up easily.

I shot some Triple Seven 3F a few different times. It shot GREAT, The Crud Ring wasnt a problem at all with #11 Caps, But was a VERY DIFFERENT story with 209 Shotgun primers. It was also ROUGH with my Dry Paper Patch Bullets. All in all I liked Triple Seven just fine, if I couldn’t get Swiss Real Blackpowder I would be Shooting Triple Seven

Swiss Real Blackpowder is DIRTY, anybody that say’s it’s not is Full of it. But it is the Best Shooting, Most consistent Powder i have Shot, I love the Stuff

 

[Idaholewis]

Only if desperate would I again use it. Years ago I bought 2# of it for my Encore 209x50. For whatever reason, it would develop the dreaded crud ring 1st shot on a clean barrel. It was almost impossible to get the second bullet to the powder, and I found that the bore had to be brushed after each shot. I still have the better part of that 2#. Goex Clean (or was it Clear) Shot worked great but that got discontinued for some reason.

Your problem was the use of 209 Shotshell primers, They are HOT and Notorious for creating the “Dreaded Triple Seven Crud Ring”, With #11 Percussion caps the Crud Ring was no different than my Swiss Real Blackpowder

 

[bstorric]

Same thing with my musket caps. No issue there. I just do two dry patches between shots reversing the patch each time (so 4 swabs) and by the last swab, i get a pretty clean patch with not much residue left in barrel

 

[Idaholewis]

Same thing with my musket caps. No issue there. I just do two dry patches between shots reversing the patch each time (so 4 swabs) and by the last swab, i get a pretty clean patch with not much residue left in barrel

Your swabbing routine is similiar to mine, The KEY is consistency. Swab the Bore the EXACT same way Shot after Shot

 

[Fyrstyk]

Your swabbing routine is similiar to mine, The KEY is consistency. Swab the Bore the EXACT same way Shot after Shot

Have you tried Old Enysford powder? It is very close to Swiss in velocities, and burns pretty clean.

 

[deermanok]

I've used Pyrodex as recently as last year in my CVA Optima pistol.
Pretty much available most places, at least it was. Always fired off.

 

[Idaholewis]

Have you tried Old Enysford powder? It is very close to Swiss in velocities, and burns pretty clean.

I have, I wasn’t impressed with it and set it aside, The 1st outing My Swiss out shot it Easily with a Proven Rifle/Load. BUT in all Fairness i have only shot it a Couple of outings. The last outing was with Patched Roundball and it Shot Good for me that time I was given some info here by @MSalyards and @eekjellander about Compression on the Powder, They tell me that Olde E. Likes Compression, I bought a SUPER NICE Lehigh Range Rod from @eekjellander, I can Set a Collar/Stop to Give consistent Compression on the Powder. I need to get back out and Try This Olde E Powder again, I have nearly a Full can of it, in 2F Grade

 

[deermanok]

I have some Old Ensyford 3f powder and Swiss. In my rifles with a patched ball, I don't notice much difference in performance. I do think the Swiss powder is a bit cleaner burning.

 

[ihookem]

Black powder sure is a funny thing. I have 3 barrels. One is a 50 cal. 1/48 Hawken, a 50 cal. GM. in 1/66 and a 54 cal in a Renegade that is 1/48 and has a QLA. I cant get good results at all in the 54 with 3f , but 2f shoots GOEX better than Old Eyenford. I have not tried the 2f Swiss yet though. My 50 cal. barrels does not seem to care at all what brand or if it is 2 or 3f. I used to have problems getting real black to go off but it just was not settling in the cap pocket. I think this is much of the reason smoke poles dont always go off.

 

[Fyrstyk]

That is the joy of black powder shooting. Just like centerfire guns, each BP gun is a case unto itself and requires some tinkering with powder, charge amounts, patching, projectile and lube to find the right combination that gives you the results you are looking for.

 

[lefteye]

I have used Pyrodex P in flintlocks with no issues. I keep some for a back up but generally shoot 2f Swiss. I think it cleans up better than Goex but both shoot well.

 

[ihookem]

Would it be too much to put in 5 gr. of 4f in the pan and use T7 in a flintlock? JUST ASKING!