What muzzleloaders can shoot smokeless? Any sidelocks?

[drpatton]

I guarantee if you used nearly any other commonly used SML powder in this video it would not be nearly as dramatic. Nay sayers though want that dramatic effect to instill fear in others or they would use powders we commonly use. They would use amounts of powder we would use. Not 120grs of a pistol powder.

The video was very disingenuous. They used 120 grains of "Double Base" HS-6.

I looked up the loads for the .458 Winchester magnum. It calls for 50 to 70 grains of Single Based Powder.

CVA didn't use a powder with the characteristics of IMR-4198, IMR-4895 or H-335, they used a a double load of very fast burning powder which contains Nitroglycerine.
What CVA did, was prove they couldn't use a type of powder in an amount which shooters may actually use in a muzzleloader. By having to exaggerate the outcome, they proved using the correct smokeless in safe amount can be safe. That is because if they used what shooters actually use in their muzzleloaders, CVA's demonstration and claim would have failed and proven it safe.

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

Smokeless powder burns.
Black powder explodes.

A side note: On battleships, black powder is used to ignite the smokeless powder used on the big guns. That is why there is a large smoke ring wen the guns are fired.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Here is another YouTube video which proves you can blow up the barrel of a muzzleloader with the smokeless powder designed for pistol cartridges. The same thing would have happened to the barrel of a centerfire rifle...

 

[earlwb]

Badicslly no muzzleloader is safe with smokeless powders. Do not try it. They do not test the guns to shoot smokeless powders. Those newbies that try it will blow up their guns as they load the same volume of powder as they would with black powder. That is guaranteed to blow up the gun. Do not do it.

Now there are some exceptions where some inline guns are rated for smokeless powders. But those are with tight restrictions just as there are with modern cartridge guns. Same loads as for a similar cartridge. But those are the only ones thst might be safe shooting smokeless.

 

[user 30577]

Yep....this one also proves smokeless powder, barrel obstructions, double-loading, etc in traditional BP guns is a no-no....
#9 and #10 tests ( starting at 11:30 time stamp ) on the video below should convince anyone wanting to try smokeless in traditional guns to think again.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Yep....this one also proves smokeless powder, barrel obstructions, double-loading, etc in traditional BP guns is a no-no....
#9 and #10 tests ( starting at 11:30 time stamp ) on the video below should convince anyone wanting to try smokeless in traditional guns to think again.

The title of the video is the problem, because it implies no muzzleloader can use smokeless powder safely.

The video below proves this is a myth.

 

[user 30577]

The title of the video is the problem, because it implies no muzzleloader can use smokeless powder safely.

The video below proves this is a myth.

Guess you're right. I need to change the thumbnail to traditional muzzleloaders.
Because..I won't try smokeless in traditional muzzleloaders.

 

[user 30577]

Guess you're right. I need to change the thumbnail to traditional muzzleloaders.
Because..I won't try smokeless in traditional muzzleloaders.

Got 'er done. thanks...

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Got 'er done. thanks...

View attachment 33467

The title on YouTube has not been corrected.

 

[user 30577]

The title on YouTube has not been corrected.

Geez....these computers drives me crazy occasionally.
Hope this finally gets it fixed....
Thanks for mentioning the error on the thumbnail.
I never noticed it when originally posted several years ago...

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Geez....these computers drives me crazy occasionally.
Hope this finally gets it fixed....
Thanks for mentioning the error on the thumbnail.
I never noticed it when originally posted several years ago...

Thank you for being willing to make the changes.

They reflect the truth about which muzzleloaders can and cannot use smokeless powder safely.

 

[drpatton]

Badicslly no muzzleloader is safe with smokeless powders. Do not try it. They do not test the guns to shoot smokeless powders. Those newbies that try it will blow up their guns as they load the same volume of powder as they would with black powder. That is guaranteed to blow up the gun. Do not do it.

Now there are some exceptions where some inline guns are rated for smokeless powders. But those are with tight restrictions just as there are with modern cartridge guns. Same loads as for a similar cartridge. But those are the only ones thst might be safe shooting smokeless.

I would normally agree with you; However, CVA, by far exaggerating the results of their test, showed me it is safe. If it wasn't safe, CVA would have been more realistic in their video test.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

There is a way to shoot smokeless powder in any modern 209 primered muzzleloader by carefully matching the correct weight of a slower burning powder with a certain weight bullet. In many ways this new product is no different than a modern shotgun shell, which also uses smokeless powder.

Now if we can just find a company willing to produce this new product...

 

[MrTom]

After the last post I think its time to lock this thread up. Every day, plain jane, [CVA, Knight, T/C, White, Traditions] muzzleloader's barrels are not the same as those barrels designated for smokeless. Custom builders will re-barrel or use barrels and other components that are meant for smokeless powder's more aggressive pressures and wear and tear that smokeless powders can put on guns..

Sure as heck someone is going to be reading some of this stuff and say to themselves "hey, this is for me" and then blow an arm off.

Yes, this is the smokeless section. Black powder and black powder guns, barrels or whatever black powder should not even be breathed in this section so less educated shooters don't do something regrettable.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

After the last post I think its time to lock this thread up. Every day, plain jane, [CVA, Knight, T/C, White, Traditions] muzzleloader's barrels are not the same as those barrels designated for smokeless. Custom builders will re-barrel or use barrels and other components that are meant for smokeless powder's more aggressive pressures and wear and tear that smokeless powders can put on guns..

Sure as heck someone is going to be reading some of this stuff and say to themselves "hey, this is for me" and then blow an arm off.

Yes, this is the smokeless section. Black powder and black powder guns, barrels or whatever black powder should not even be breathed in this section so less educated shooters don't do something regrettable.

The new Nitrofire muzzleloader uses the Firestick cartridge which contains mainly smokeless powder. (Nitrocellulose)

 

[earlwb]

They need to maybe delete this thread before someone actually goes out and blows off their arm or face. Too many people will read this thread thinking that it will work and do it.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

They need to maybe delete this thread before someone actually goes out and blows off their arm or face. Too many people will read this thread thinking that it will work and do it.

At one time all cartridges contained black powder, instead of smokeless powder.

Do you want to turn back the clock to that time?

 

[earlwb]

No , but don’t fire smokeless charges in a gun that was never intended to do so. I have seen people blow up old cartridge guns that used BP. I have witnessed s couple of guys destroy a muzzleloader too. They both were incredibly lucky at the time.

Some will look in the reloading books and see where they were using smokeless loads in those same cartridges so they tried it and destroyed their old antique guns. They never thought that those loads applied only to modern guns designed for it. They even ignored the warnings in those books too. Some of them are maimed for life.

But if you choose to do so. Then do it. You don’t need to justify it to me.

 

[user 30577]

Here is another YouTube video which proves you can blow up the barrel of a muzzleloader with the smokeless powder designed for pistol cartridges. The same thing would have happened to the barrel of a centerfire rifle...

If I tried what these fellars did at the 3:40 mark ( loading a recently fired cap gun straight from the container ) .......my viewers would crucify me for such an unsafe practice.

I guess you can do that and get away with it when you have a million subscribers.....

 

[MrTom]

It's not turning a clock back. It's all about keeping smokeless muzzleloaders and the information surrounding them free of this other garbage that may, to some, suggest that using smokeless powder in a black powder only gun is doable. Right now custom guns can be deemed smokeless, but none of the store bought guns are custom.

And we do not need to discuss the Nitrofire here. Its a cartidge charged gun that has the bullet and /or sabot pushed down the barrel. Smokeless MUZZLELOADERS are still completely loaded from the muzzle, no form of cartridge involvement anywhere.

Woodman Arms site specifies specifically that anyone who is humoring the idea of shooting smokeless in any of his custom guns, those that take months to make and deliver, MUST contact Mark Woodman directly to have a conversation about doing so. The T/C guns that have been rebarreled and the proper plug installed is a custom gun. Savage, Remington, CVA Scout and Ruger weapons that have been properly converted to be smokeless shooters are no longer simple store bought weapons, but in fact customized to handle smokeless. All this talk about store bought black powder guns being able to handle light smokeless charges is fallacy.

Smokeless means exactly that and is what should be discussed in this unique forum, not maybes or guess what you can do with your black powder only gun. What I have found to be true with those that post in this smokeless forum, they are serious people and take little for granted when it comes to shooting these special guns. I got my Patriot in December, and just shot it for the first time yesterday. Since receiving the gun until yesterday I have had a multitude of conversations with other members who post here in this forum, asking questions on powders and bullets, and some of the ins and outs of shooting smokeless because it is so different from black powder and the subs. Not once, ever, has one of these contacts suggested that I load a light charge of smokeless in my Accura to see if I was going to enjoy shooting smokeless. And that is exactly how this particular forum should be managed.