Wide Meplat .45 PP bullet @ 100 yards

[Idaholewis]

I just shot my big wide Meplat .45 Cal PP bullet at my 100 yard range, I wish i could say i shot the 2 shots to the right, made a sight adjustment and shot the other 3, But that’s NOT how it went. I have something odd going on? I am either changing my sight picture somehow, or something is shifting/moving? My first shot was the highest above the Center of the X, My next 2 shots were together just under an inch apart but far right, i went back and shot my last 2 and they ended up with my first shot? ODD?

My Target

Same 100 yard Range, Target on far bank

And the Bullet, These are Pure lead. They drop from my mold at around .443, and Wrap up to .450-.451, i run them through my .449 sizer (hardly any resistance felt) They ‘bounce back’ at .450, They load REALLY nice in my .45 Cal Green Mountain LRH 1:30 Twist, i would trust these bullets to stay put on the powder, The Papers ‘Shuck’ from the bullets perfectly upon exiting the bore and are found within 10 feet or so of the Muzzle

 

[Idaholewis]

This Bullet Shot EXTREMELY well at 50 Yards

An old Target i shot back when i first got this Mold Cut, Today’s shooting above was this same exact load

 

[sabotloader]

Something moved! My first guess would be the barrel in the stock changed position and barrel harmonics...

 

[Idaholewis]

Something moved! My first guess would be the barrel in the stock changed position and barrel harmonics...

I am thinking that same thing Mike? I have had this same thing happen a couple of times now, odd unexplainable groups like this? I need to break down and Bed this Darn thing, the Barrel Channel, and the Tang. I sure don’t think it would hurt anything? As much as this barrel is in and out of the stock cleaning it, I can’t imagine a good bedding job doing anything but making it better?

 

[edmehlig]

Wonder how my 475gr conical would do?

 

[Idaholewis]

Wonder how my 475gr conical would do?

Ed, Your BIG Hammers will be 1 of my next outings! I want to run these Big Wide PP Bullets 1 more time first and see if my work below fixed this Odd Grouping stuff?

I feel fairly confident i found my problem? My wedge key has always been fairly loose in this rifle, But i felt like that was ok as long as it would stay in and not just fall out? I have always been able to remove this wedge key by pushing it out with my thumb, then grabbing it from the other side and pulling it out, all by hand. I talked with a friend just up the Rd from me that builds Custom Sidelocks and he told me that the Wedge key should be snugger than that. Not ridiculously tight, but snug enough that you can’t just push it out by hand, he advised me to do the same as Lyman says to do, and that’s to bend the Wedge key tennon by placing a piece of 3/8” Round stock rod flat across the bottom of the Tennon and give it a Bop with a hammer, keep checking fit until you get it good n snug. After cleaning the rifle I bent the Tennon, and now have it just tight enough that i can’t push it out with my thumb. Hopefully this was my problem! If this fixes it, i will be retesting my Latest Lyman mold #457193 420 Grain bullets

 

[Rlsmith]

Lewis my friend first let me say that you seem very upset at some animal that you would feel the need to shoot them with such a huge heavy bullet lol just having fun on a serious note I hope you get it figured out my friend.

 

[sabotloader]

Something moved! My first guess would be the barrel in the stock changed position and barrel harmonics...

I am thinking that same thing Mike? I have had this same thing happen a couple of times now, odd unexplainable groups like this? I need to break down and Bed this Darn thing, the Barrel Channel, and the Tang. I sure don’t think it would hurt anything? As much as this barrel is in and out of the stock cleaning it, I can’t imagine a good bedding job doing anything but making it better?

I took the easy way out on one of my Renegades with the same problem... I really could not believe how well the RVT Silicone Sealant worked and still works today...

 

[long shot]

Why PP a grease Groove ?

 

[Idaholewis]

Mike, That was an AWESOME idea! I like the fact that a guy could remove it without to much hassle if ya chose to, I will do that same thing to this rifle, Tonight! :yeah: Gonna Take my Dad Turkey hunting tomorrow so it can cure good, i will shoot it again Day after tomorrow. Thank you for the detailed post!

 

[Idaholewis]

Why PP a grease Groove ?

I have had really good luck with grease groove bullets that drop at correct PP diameter, For me it started From Idahoron and his RCBS 11MM Bullet, and His Lee S&W 500 Bullet, I REALLY liked both of those bullets but I didn’t like the Diameter of them from the mold, i wanted them to drop from the mold at .443, .493, and .543, I actually sent Tom at Accurate molds a Lee S&W 500 bullet and asked him to copy it as closely as he could, except I didn’t want the Gas check. After i got that mold and had time to shoot it some, i ended up having Tom stretch that exact same bullet out to .54 Cal, This .45 Cal bullet actually came from Tom’s 460 S&W bullet, i had him make a few changes, but the parent bullet i started with was his 460 S&W

Colonel Harrison claimed that grooved paperpatch bullets were more accurate than smooth paperpatch bullets.

I have both, Smooth side, and GG at Correct PP Diameter and have had good luck with both.

 

[sabotloader]

Mike, That was an AWESOME idea! I like the fact that a guy could remove it without to much hassle if ya chose to, I will do that same thing to this rifle, Tonight! :yeah: Gonna Take my Dad Turkey hunting tomorrow so it can cure good, i will shoot it again Day after tomorrow. Thank you for the detailed post!

Just make sure you put enough layers of tape down... I put a layer on and then put the barrel back in and did that until I got enough lift to make sure the barrel was floated - then added the RVT...

 

[Idaholewis]

Mike, That was an AWESOME idea! I like the fact that a guy could remove it without to much hassle if ya chose to, I will do that same thing to this rifle, Tonight! :yeah: Gonna Take my Dad Turkey hunting tomorrow so it can cure good, i will shoot it again Day after tomorrow. Thank you for the detailed post!

Just make sure you put enough layers of tape down... I put a layer on and then put the barrel back in and did that until I got enough lift to make sure the barrel was floated - then added the RVT...

I got it!! Thanks again Mike! I sure can’t see this hurting anything? It was a fun project, I did 1 up ya though, i went with Ultra Blue RVT!! :lol:

I went with 2 layers of Tape, that gave just a bit more noticeable tension on the wedge key

My tape doubled up Came in at .011

The Permatex Ultra Blue RVT i used, Has a REALLY wide range of Temp use, is it better? No idea? But it looks kinda cool

Barrel in the Stock, wedge key in, Drying for a few hours

And finished! It turned out REALLY good! This pic is kinda blurry, but you can see the finished Job

 

[Idaholewis]

I placed the barrel back in the Stock and Keyed it up, it can stay in there til Day after tomorrow, I will take it out for test Run then. :yeah:

 

[sabotloader]

The Permatex Ultra Blue RVT i used, Has a REALLY wide range of Temp use, is it better? No idea? But it looks kinda cool

That is exactly why I used the Ultra Blue also - but yours has a lot more tint to it than mine. Then again I did mine several years ago when the product was just showing up on the market I think... I got it at the local NAPA store... I still have that Rene and it still shoots great!

 

[52Bore]

Colonel Harrison claimed that grooved paperpatch bullets were more accurate than smooth paperpatch bullets.
I have both, Smooth side, and GG at Correct PP Diameter and have had good luck with both.

Who is Colonel Harrison? I don't recognize the name, was he one of the US Creedmoor members?

 

[Idaholewis]

Colonel Harrison claimed that grooved paperpatch bullets were more accurate than smooth paperpatch bullets.
I have both, Smooth side, and GG at Correct PP Diameter and have had good luck with both.

Who is Colonel Harrison? I don't recognize the name, was he one of the US Creedmoor members?

Here is his Book, Cast Bullets by Col E.H. Harrison

https://www.scribd.com/doc/225468029/Ca ... n-NRA-1979

 

[52Bore]

Good read, thanks. I may have to get the book as on my phone - it was a little difficult, but kept me interested at lunch.
I did read that the smooth PP did not shoot well in the .30 cal with smokeless.

 

[Idaholewis]

Good read, thanks. I may have to get the book as on my phone - it was a little difficult, but kept me interested at lunch.
I did read that the smooth PP did not shoot well in the .30 cal with smokeless.

Col Harrison was big on the .30 Calibers, pushing the velocity limit.

As far as Smooth sided vs a Gease Groove for Paper Patching, I have had really good, and bad luck both ways, I cannot say that 1 is any more accurate than the other? When i get ‘Everything Right’ Both bullets have performed equally well for me. The tricky part is getting ‘Everything Right’ regardless the bullet design

Here is a much more extreme example of a GG bullet i often Paper Patch with VERY good results, The Lyman Plains bullet, i have sized this bullet all the way down to correct PP Diameter in both .50 Cal (sized down to .492-.493) and .54 Cal (Sized down to .532-.533) then Wrap them up to bore, The Lyman Plains Bullets are very similar Diameter wise to a Maxi Ball (Smaller Base bands for ease of starting, and Large Front Driving Band to engage the Rifling) I just Roll them across a WELL lubed pad and make sure they are coated good, They slide through the sizer with ease, Try this without Lube and you will wish you hadn’t, I happen to know this first hand :lol: It’s obviously MUCH easier to start with a bullet that drops from the mold at a correct PP Diameter to begin with, be it a GG or a Slick sided bullet. But fact is the above Lyman Plains Scenario works very well if you care to mess with it

The 2 things i have found with all of my PP bullets that REALLY make a difference in Accuracy is Lead Hardness, and finding the Correct OP Wad/OP Wad Combo. This is of course all done in Muzzleloaders with me, i have ZERO experience with Blackpowder Cartridge.

 

[Idaholewis]

Success! The new Bedding i did to the front of my Stock definitely didn’t hurt anything! Thank you again for the tip Sabotloader :yeah:

There were some pistol shooters at the Pit this morning, they were at the far end so I wasn’t able to set up at my 100 yard mark, i had to shoot 50 yards. I didn’t bring my Shaver’s inserts along, The circle aperture that was in my Front Globe is the one i shoot this same target size at 100 yards, I didn’t like it near as well at 50 yards, I wasn’t able to see any white, i needed a larger circle so i could see some of the white, But i was able to make this work fine.

50 Yards, Big Wide Meplat .45 Cal Custom PP bullet, 85 Weight Grains of Swiss 2F, 1/2 .460 Diameter Nitro Card on the powder, then an oversize .50 Cal Oxyoke brand wool on top of Nitro