Will sidelocks make a comeback?

[prostreetcamaro]

Jeez this thread made me go get out our 2 CVA Plainsman muzzleloaders and clean them up! Its been YEARS since they have been fired. HMMMMM I might just use one of them tomorrow for a change!

 

[lewistt]

rain

Just ironic - raining pretty hard this morning, so I took the rossi .50 out. Now I was raised on hammer guns before they had 2 safeties . Little doe, 135 yards, hammer back, squeeze it - "tink" - "tink"!!! Doe meanders off. Yup, fergot the dadblame second safety! 'Course, it ain't the guns' fault - operator error - but shoulda took the hawken. Just have to use it more. The rifle does shoot really well.

 

[jbuck9]

Mossie.

I have been hunting the flintlock season here in Pa, since they first opened it, and you could only hunt a few state game lands at the time, now for many years it is open state wide. I agree with you a 100% they need too keep the primitive season just the way it is, flintlock only.
I really do not think you will see a change in the flintlock season, not any time soon anyway, I do believe it won't be long that the inlines and shotguns are going too be the only weapons allowed to hunt the regular deer season, I love flintlock hunting and hunting with my black widow, in frfle season I use a tc encore from the tc custom shop, ported , thunbhole stock and it shoots great , I like it because its a one shot challenge in the rifle season, and I have had misfires with it also, but I truly like the flinters the best , no question there, we Have alot of die hard flinters in this state, but we need too get the young groud interested in hunting and the old smokepoles in order too keep the primitive seasons going,
that my honest opinion, shoot straight, keep your powder dry, and go out and enjoy. BOOOOOOM jbuck9

 

[Marlin_444]

Will they...

Hmmmmm...

Where did they go?

 

[ewald]

I don't see sidlelocks making a comeback except maybe in states where short sighted game departments mandate them by law.

 

[choc-dog]

The traditional round ball shooters will keep side locks in play but the guns themselves will become a specialty" rifle from the small semi-custom shops.

T/C still sells about 1700 Hawkin rifles every year,those are not great numbers compared to the in-lines.

The in-line rifle market is experiencing the same growth as the compound bow did its its conception.

Chocdog

 

[Elkinde]

I would say that once the inliners get over the macho 100 + yrd. thing they'll come back to the simpler life. I did just that. I love my Rem. Rolling Block but I'm ashamed to say the last 3x at the shooting range the Hawken 50 cal. was my love. It's pretty and nostalgic and I'm amazed at the things you can do with it with a little experimenting. I'm finding out that not only does it throw the round balls beautiful with the proper load, but now I'm printing some good stuff with conicals of all sorts.

 

[PA RIDGE RUNNER]

I too am a PA hunter and have hunted since the first season back in the mid 70s. Now I really like to hunt with the flintlock and as far as I know PA may be the only state with a flintlock only season. Now don't get me wrong I own a sidelock percussion and an inline but PA accomodates us at present with an early muzzleloader season for does only where any muzzleloader and sight system is pretty much legal. Mossie I agree with you that the present flintlock season should remain what it is. I am still a young man but my eyes are nearly 66 years old and I love to shoot a rifle with a scope on it for that reason. I got a couple of shots this past season but missed both times. All I could do was shake my fist and tell that deer to be back in the early season when I have my inline and the outcome would be different, maybe. The main reason I bought the inline is I also hunt most years in Kansas with my son-in-law. The shots there can be much longer than in PA. I still have to take the scope off for hunting there. Boo Hoo.

 

[cayuga]

There is this misconception that a because it is a traditional rifle, that means it is more weather sensitive, less prone to ignition, and less accurate then the modern inline rifles. Nothing could be further from the truth.

A person that knows their sidelocks can defeat weather with ease. The igntion part goes hand in hand to the weather issues, but actually my sidelocks are as dependable as my inline rifles. I tested a number of rifles one winter and the only rifle that failed to fire was a inline rifle.

Accuracy is more an issue of projectiles and the ability of the shooter to see. Granted a roundball will have more long range issues then say a high speed sabot and extreme distance. That is only a matter of ballistics of the projectile. If you use the rifle for what it was intended, and at the ranges it was intended, the sidelock is just as accurate. I mounted a GMB LRH 1-28 twist barrel on a Renegade. Believe me, that rifle will keep up to any inline rifle at any range. Again, I changed the twist and the kind of projectile the rifle shoots. Because of that I could then shoot the same things as the modern inline rifle.

The main factor I discover with accuracy is the ability of the shooter to see. The right rifle, the right optics, and you have an accurate rifle. I mounted a scope on the Renegade with the GMB and it is a very accurate rifle. My inlines without a scope are in my hands, no more accurate then my tradtional rifles.

The problem is ... traditional rifles do not make up the major market share. They can not compete because the day of the NIB $100 sidelock are long gone. The CVA Bobcat was a great selling rifle for CVA. Yet they stopped making it. Watch when one hits the auction sites. They sell fast because they are priced to sell.

Yet companies sell inline rifles for $100.00 . People wanting to enter the field without a major investment, will of course use the cost as the deciding factor. Companies like CVA used this to their advantage to get market share.

Because of the increase in people entering the sport, and the cost factor of rifles, inlines will rule. While the appeal of the traditional rifle is strong with many it is not enough for many to open the wallet for the sidelock. What I am seeing is people with inlines get interested in sidelocks and get one of them more as a love of the sport...

 

[paia]

I do not think we will see a marked increase in traditional ML shooting or sales because I do not think the game dept.'s are that interested in it. I worry that PA, where I live, will soon allow any ML in what has been the late Flintlock-only season.

I started out with a flinter in '86 because of PA's late season--went through a couple factory T/C's and then went the custom route and have been shooting a 1760's/Berks Co style .54 for a dozen years now. I also have an 1840's-style Ohio half-stock percussion .45 that I enjoy target shooting with, but have never hunted with.

That said, I will also admit that my inlines--an Omega and a Savage--get shot the most these days. I got into inline shooting for reasons that I do not think have been mentioned yet; inlines are a great, accurate & economical alternative to shotgun slugs in those states that require deer hunting with slugs OR muzzleloaders only. I think that has brought a lot of people to muzzleloading in general, and inlines specifically. These folks weren't interested in Daniel Boone etc. I meet quite a few folks at my local range that shoot inlines not to hunt special black powder seasons--they hunt the regular gun seasons in places like Maryland, Ohio, Illinois, Iowa and parts of NY. I started shooting an inline because I hunt Iowa and got tired of the recoil and cost of slugs. I still shoot a 20 ga slug gun out there sometimes, but since 2004 my biggest bucks have been killed with the Omega. And for better or worse, most folks that got an inline to hunt slug seasons are probably not going to get into traditional muzzleloaders. Just my opinion--I hope I'm wrong....

 

[cayuga]

paia - you have a very good point. In Wisconsin some counties because of population density are shotgun/muzzleloader only. Many hunters there discovered the advantages of a modern scoped inline rifle for harvesting deer.

I started many years ago shooting a T/C Renegade because I got bored with center fires. I used to hunt big fields where deer crossed back and fourth between groups of hunters all day long. We sat in blinds on these field with long range center fire rifles and basically shot the deer we wanted. Then a friend who shot black powder rifles talked me into hunting thickets and river bottoms. So I moved off to a black powder Renegade Rifle. I just kept shooting them after that in all seasons, modern and muzzleloader.

 

[Loggy]

He in the PA Sate the "sidelock come back" isnt need....its been here for years!!! We have a "Flintlock Only" Late Deer Season" which has extremely strong support by many smokers!! Its my favorite season of all!! More & more in-liners(who started with flinters) are appreciating the ole flintlock even more. I have recently organized/participated in several Flintlock Only Hunts & found their popularity ever increasing in today's modern age & expect this trend to continue!! :wink:

 

[nw_hunter]

I went from a sidelock to a inline and would give up the muzzle loading season before going back. Not because of accuracy as my TC Renegade was very accurate but I will never go back to that cleaning routine.

*********************************************

If I hated cleaning my old smoke pole, I would just shoot modern centerfire rifles. I like the smell of the black powder when I clean my traditional guns.........My wife complains about me cracking one!

DC

 

[03mossy]

this is a great descussion! i got into ml's a few years back. my father in law, friend of ours and myself all got inlines as a way to increase the time we were able to spend hunting at our new hunting lease we put so much work into. now i use my omega through all seasons. for me it was a gateway into the sport. i am now looking into a traditional ml. i will then hunt with the omega scoped threw the rifle and shotgun seasons and carry the flinter through the ml only season. one thing we all need to remember is to not spend time fighting with those that use a different type of ml and fight together against the people trying to put an end to our way of life by banning hunting and guns all together.

 

[richdeerht]

Yes, right along woth powdered wigs.

 

[CaptAmerica]

Ok since I'm the new guy here I'll chip in. The last couple years have seen lead go sky high in price. That said most of the recreational shooting I used to do, has gone way down. Everything has increased in cost and I really have a hard time spending a buck a round on sabots for my Knight just to spend some time shooting. So I picked up a unfired CVA Bobcat for 75$ today. Round balls are alot easier on the wallet and I'll save atleast 40gr of powder each round. I know the Bobcat is one of the lowliest sidelocks, but the price was right and I really do enjoy plinking with them (this is my 4th sidelock, but the only one I now have).
So will sidelocks comeback? If costs keep going higher or stay where they are at, they stand a chance of making up some ground. I doubt most inline makers are going to start switching to 1:48 or 1:66 twists. But I could be wrong......Sure makes me miss my TC Treehawk and my Renegade....good times, good times...

 

[woodgoat]

I never understood how sidelocks got the reputation of being hard to clean.

I can answer that one......its mainly from TC and Knight advertising. They never come right out and say you dont have to clean an inline, but there's verbage to the effect of "Tired of all the mess and bother of using an unreliable sidelock?" You and I know thats just hogwash, but anyone who's never used and cleaned both wont know. IMO, the modern muzzleloader manufacturers' advertising is a big part of the rift between the traditional gun crowd and the inline crowd. Some of the modern advertising also insinuates that traditional guns are less reliable and not accurate too. Another falsehood. I own and shoot flintlocks, caplocks, and several inlines. They all have their place and all are fun. The biggest advantages I can see for the "modern" style guns is that they come drilled and tapped for a scope and they're easy to manufacture. Other than that, they wont do anything a sidelock cant do. Anyway, back to the original question....No, I dont see an upsurge in traditional style sales. There's an acute shortage of good sidelock guns being manufactured for one thing. And a well made sidelock will usually cost twice what an inline costs. I truly do believe though that while there might be less traditional style guns out there, the owners of those guns shoot alot more than "modern" gun owners and generally have a keener interest in guns in general. So, I dont see traditional style guns increasing in use, but I dont think they're going away. Actually, I dont think they've ever been gone.

 

[n8dawg6]

I never understood how sidelocks got the reputation of being hard to clean.

Some of the modern advertising also insinuates that traditional guns are less reliable and not accurate too. Another falsehood.

this reminds me of some guys i was hunting with a couple of years back in the MS "primitive" season. we were all hunting w/ inlines, somebody remarked "yeah, this thing (referring to his inline) is a lot better than those old sidelocks. you dont have to worry about it exploding on you."

i replied "welllllll ...."

 

[cayuga]

this reminds me of some guys i was hunting with a couple of years back in the MS "primitive" season. we were all hunting w/ inlines, somebody remarked "yeah, this thing (referring to his inline) is a lot better than those old sidelocks. you dont have to worry about it exploding on you."

i replied "welllllll ...."

n8dawg6 - it never ceases to amaze me the misinformation out there as I am sure it does you. How many traditional rifles have you heard of blowing up, and then compare that to inline rifles. People have a tendency to push the powder in these modern rifles. I personally think they are more dangerous then a traditional to the untrained or uninformed.

Just like when I hunt during the modern season with a scoped inline rifle. Friends and I were going to hunt a field, and they suggested I stand hunt the draw because the shots would be nice and close down there. I had a scoped Black Diamond XR that could shoot out to 150 yards. The field was not that wide. But they still believed I needed a 30 yard shot. That afternoon one of them missed a walking shot at 80 yards with a scoped 30-06 and they were worried about me?

 

[n8dawg6]

well, after watching the t/c video that came with my "bargain cave" triumph muzzleloader this evening, i can see how the misinformation gets spread. i was a little surprised at the blatancy of the marketing ploys, although i guess i shouldn't be.

nevertheless, it is a very nifty gun. t/c is definitely making a high quality product.