100yrds..Great, 200yrds...Goes to Hell-Help!!

[Harley469]

Today was not my day for shooting. I wanted to go back and forth between my Dad's old custom side lock and my custom smokeless build (different issues with both, but I will only deal with my smokeless problem on this thread). I finally was able to stretch out the smokeless and it wasn't pretty for some reason. At 100yrds the holes are touching, but at 200yrds, the bullet was all over, no grouping whatsoever. I am at a complete loss. There was no wind to speak of this morning and I was shooting from bags. I did shoot at 100yrds at the end, and it is dead on. Here is the load info and specs:
72grns of H4198
300gr Fury black tip
26" Brux 1:20 twist
Arrowhead ignition system with Federal magnum primers

I am at a complete loss, so hopefully you guys have some insight.

 

[Farmerboy78]

So what scope and power is being used? Have you done a charge development? What is the shooting setup? What trigger? Are you shooting with or without wads?

 

[Harley469]

So what scope and power is being used? Have you done a charge development? What is the shooting setup? What trigger? Are you shooting with or without wads?

I am using a Leupold VX-5 HD scope 4-20x (maxed out the power). I found that 72grns of H4198 worked very well at 100yrds, so I assumed that it should work well beyond, with the bullet simply dropping. I am not using a wad, simply bullet on top of powder. I am using a two stage trigger (can't remember the brand that my builder used).

 

[xdmalder]

Are you maxing the scope out at 100 as well

 

[Farmerboy78]

FWIW, I have tried furies in my rifle and it didn't like them. The pittman 275gr Accumax is about 0.5moa at 100, a single ragged hole. I skipped to 300 on steel and hit a 3x6 in 1 shot, and at 400 and 500yds a 6" diamond, each in 1 shot after finding drop at 600yds...

 

[Farmerboy78]

Are you smooth sizing? If so how tight does it fit? I also do not use a wad. Are you recoil sensitive? It may show up more beyond 100yds. Curious if the next accurate charge down does better?

 

[Harley469]

Are you smooth sizing? If so how tight does it fit? I also do not use a wad. Are you recoil sensitive? It may show up more beyond 100yds. Curious if the next accurate charge down does better?

Yes, I have found that a "moderate" amount of pressure from the ramrod creates more accuracy for me, or at least it did. I did work with the sizing just a bit in hopes of improving accuracy at 200. It didn't seem to help however when increasing the tightness of the bullet to the bore. Not recoil sesitive by the way, the faster the better, as long as that bullet is accurate.

 

[snapbang]

Im not a long range shooter but if Im understanding correctly the Pittman bullet shoots well at all distances. The Fury does well to 100 yards but not beyond. Maybe I state the obvious but is the Fury bullet destabilizing. Is the bullet getting deformed?

 

[Harley469]

Im not a long range shooter but if Im understanding correctly the Pittman bullet shoots well at all distances. The Fury does well to 100 yards but not beyond. Maybe I state the obvious but is the Fury bullet destabilizing. Is the bullet getting deformed?

Couldn't say if it is getting deformed (just going into the dirt somewhere in the hay field). My guess was also destabilization. I have some Parkers on hand I could try for comparison. I would need to order the Pittmans. I just hate to order them if it isn't destabilization- as you know, none of these custom bullets are cheap, and Pittmans cost the most.

 

[Harley469]

Are you maxing the scope out at 100 as well

No, but close.

 

[snapbang]

How about some other less expensive bullets to try. Just a few to see if you run into a similar problem. Maybe some PR Bullets. Maybe call Fury, my understanding is the guy is very customer friendly. He knows more about his bullets than anyone. Coincidentally Fury is only 20 miles from me. I was thinking of going there this winter to see his shop.

To me the problem is specific to the Fury. Maybe he had some material delivered that wasn't up to its normal specs??? He may not know it until someone tells him there is a problem.

I will be following along and hope you solve your problem. Be patient. Also start taking notes about ever factor involved.

Wish I had more for you.

 

[Harley469]

How about some other less expensive bullets to try. Just a few to see if you run into a similar problem. Maybe some PR Bullets. Maybe call Fury, my understanding is the guy is very customer friendly. He knows more about his bullets than anyone. Coincidentally Fury is only 20 miles from me. I was thinking of going there this winter to see his shop.

To me the problem is specific to the Fury. Maybe he had some material delivered that wasn't up to its normal specs??? He may not know it until someone tells him there is a problem.

I will be following along and hope you solve your problem. Be patient. Also start taking notes about ever factor involved.

Wish I had more for you.

As for bullet deformation, I can tell from the holes on the target/carboard that they are definitely not wobbling-perfect circular holes. And I will give the Fury guy a call/text just to see what his take is on the situation. I have about 60 bullets left.

 

[HC]

Suppose the tips are melting between 100 and 200 yds ?

 

[Harley469]

Suppose the tips are melting between 100 and 200 yds ?

I wouldn't think so. These bullets are designed for smokeless muzzleloading at high velocities, and the holes being punched on paper are perfectly concentric.

 

[HC]

Following.

 

[Harley469]

Guess I am gonna order some 275gr Pittmans and see what happens. I have late ML season coming up in IA and that is where I really had intended to hunt at extended ranges. Here in IL I don't have a great deal of open space (shot my last buck with the 300gr Fury at 30 yards-obviously not what the gun was intended for, but knew that was a good possibility). I will also try my 300gr Parker Black Max (found I don't like the way they expand on deer, but just using for testing purposes).

 

[Farmerboy78]

Pm sent harley

 

[ENCORE50A]

I read most, not every post but, the Fury bullets shoot excellent from my rifle and also from a number of rifle owners I personally know. Fury bullets are HUNTING bullets and designed for hunting. I find them excellent shooters out to 400yds. Beyond 400yds is a different story.
That said, just because a charge will stack bullets at 100yds, does not in any way mean it'll do it at longer ranges.

Have you performed a Satterlee test? If not, you're wasting money and time IMO.

I'd suggest the Arrowhead XLD bullet and would over the Pittman, of which I have and shoot both. The XLD appears to be the better LONG range bullet, at least to 1K.

I shoot 5 different smokeless propellants and always use a veggie wad. That may help but, do a Satterlee test.

 

[xdmalder]

What was your group sizes at 100 and 200. Pictures may help as well

 

[Harley469]

What was your group sizes at 100 and 200. Pictures may help as well

I don't have any pictures, but at 100 holes were touching/going through each other. At 200, the spread would be about 2 1/2 feet!! No discernable pattern at all.