209 Primers Move the Powder & Bullet Forward Before Ignition?

[billyboy*]

2,740 FPS MUZZLELOADER?!?! CVA'S .40 CALIBER @ 600-YARD - DROP THE TAILGATE - YouTube

209 Primers Move the Powder & Bullet Forward Before Ignition?
Curious if Cecil Epps (Variflame) is the one that started this Myth? Please watch the above Video at around the 19:00 mark.

 

[GM54-120]

Cecil has been hyping that myth since the early Variflame adapters and its never been proven in a shooting event. Those have been around for ages and im not aware of a single winning shooter that ever used them. If they did what he said, shooters would have been all over the original version.

Not even a remotely new idea. (First Posted 4/20/2005 Last Updated3/07/2008 )
https://www.prbullet.com/vf.htm

 

[ENCORE50A]

Just before 13:00 LOL Quite obvious he's never used a GOOD brake.

NO WITNESS MARK!

Primers...... the 209 has more pressure over a LRP.

 

[GM54-120]

I didnt see a jag on the end of the rod when he loaded the ELR either? Is that built into the CVA rods?

 

[ENCORE50A]

I didnt see a jag on the end of the rod when he loaded the ELR either? Is that built into the CVA rods?

Nope. That's why everyone complains about it pulling the bullet off the charge.

 

[GM54-120]

A quick search said its threaded and if thats true the the poly tip is being grabbed by the threads. But hey, lets worry about a 209 being too powerful and totally ignore a rod pulling the bullet up. Being a bungee cord rod complicating the process even more as far as "feel".

How many years were guys shooting land riders with 209s, BH209 and winning? I do believe that a good LRMP system has advantages but to focus on the projectile movement hype is absurd. And to be even more honest a LRMP is no weakling either. It has quite a bit of energy. Probably more than a ML 209 does such a Triple7 Primer.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

The main reason i like his original variflames is that they fit in a 209 breech plug and i have large amount of SRMPs. They shoot bh209 fine for me. Ive never, afaik, had a bullet come off powder from 209s. But that isnt why i like them VFs anyway. Cecil seems like one of those guys who's very smart but not quite all there at the same time. I think he's got a lot of really good ideas and some not so great ones as well. Wish he was a little more open to criticism.

 

[GM54-120]

The idea was even used on underhammer rifles at shooting matches. A LRP or SRP is placed in a device and locks in place by rotating it. It replaces the nipple. Sort of like a MagSpark but not quite.

 

[LHR]

I once asked Cecil if I could buy bulk bullets without his sabot since I preferred the Harvester sabots. For the life of him he could not understand why I would want to do this? And he refused to sell them without the sabot.

I also asked him about the use of a .45 cal for elk hunting, wondering about optimal barrel twist and such. Well it became very apparent I was not talking to the right man for advice! He told me I should never hunt elk with a .45 cal that it would not be humane ..... Even though I’d guess probably close to half of elk killed by muzzle loader fall to a .45 cal bullet fired from a .50 cal rifle.

Nevertheless I have since moved on to better bullets anyway, bye Cecil!

 

[billyboy*]

The main reason i like his original variflames is that they fit in a 209 breech plug and i have large amount of SRMPs. They shoot bh209 fine for me. Ive never, afaik, had a bullet come off powder from 209s. But that isnt why i like them VFs anyway.

Those Originals Size & made out of Brass instead of SS look like they would work better for Sealing. Do they also require an Oring to eliminate Blowback?

 

[brad502a]

I watched some of the video. It sounded like a used car salesman spewing BS about why this "car" is what you need to buy and why his the the best built.

 

[alternate]

I don't buy the variflame myth but even if it's true,,,,,,so what? The bullet is being pushed down the barrel by an ever expanding gas front. What difference does it make how much of that gas is from the primer and how much is from the burning powder as long as it happens the same way every time. The most important thing is to light the powder reliably and the 209 does that just fine.

 

[billyboy*]

I watched some of the video. It sounded like a used car salesman spewing BS about why this "car" is what you need to buy and why his the the best built.

Yeah, Exactly! Wanted to spare the Folks the Agony, so said to View at around the 19:00 mark.

 

[45-70]

The idea was even used on underhammer rifles at shooting matches. A LRP or SRP is placed in a device and locks in place by rotating it. It replaces the nipple. Sort of like a MagSpark but not quite.

it is called a sealed ignition, most use #11 caps

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Those Originals Size & made out of Brass instead of SS look like they would work better for Sealing. Do they also require an Oring to eliminate Blowback?

I'm not sure they're required, but ive only used them with the oring. They are definitely harder to close the breech on.

 

[tpcollins]

My step-son got me the Variflame for my MK85 on my birthday long ago. So I thought I’ll just put it in and it should be ok.

Next morning I had a huge buck come by right after 1st light. I fired 3 times and it never went off. Serves me right for not checking ahead of time.

 

[JeffB1961]

thanks billyboy for starting this thread . i haven't bought a ML yet , just trying to learn to make a informed buying decision and i've seen the comments on 209 pushing everything forward before the powder ignites .... and been wondering if it's usable info or just bovine pooh . thanks to the folks that replied also .
take care , Jeff

 

[45-70]

Don't know all about that , but do know if you have misfire from powder you should always check to see if bullet moved up the barrel

 

[MrTom]

thanks billyboy for starting this thread . i haven't bought a ML yet , just trying to learn to make a informed buying decision and i've seen the comments on 209 pushing everything forward before the powder ignites .... and been wondering if it's usable info or just bovine pooh . thanks to the folks that replied also .
take care , Jeff

Find a friend that owns and shoots one, then give him a few bucks to take you to the club to shoot it. You can read forever but doing the real thing is probably the best way to decide if you really want to go the route of the muzzleloader. After you've actually loaded and shot one a few times you can pick up the mouse and find volumes to read. Having loaded and fire one a couple times will help you understand what you'll be reading.

Muzzle loaders are fun and offer an ideal hunting choice instead of a center-fire rifle or shotgun. Way too many people read about all the good times then run out and buy into a muzzy, but after actually doing range time and the after-shooting clean-up they decide the sport is not for them. Find out first hand, then read all you want.

 

[JeffB1961]

thanks MrTom . i do have a bro-n-law that has a older CVA that i can try/use . he drives a tandem for FEDX all week and doesn't have a lot of spare time at home so i've not taken him up on his offer ...... but i guess i need to . he's said he hasn't shot the gun in 10+ years and isn't sure if it's loaded or not .... which has me a little concerned . but he has at least a few dozen guns and 3 big steel gun safes and 2 medium ones and hunts a lot with his buddies and is a very level headed guy . ..... yep , i need to get up with him .
sorry if i distracted the thread and thanks again folks , Jeff