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Running deer with a ML that has good lock time is no different than using a shotgun or centerfire. I like break open guns because they're about 4 inches shorter for a given barrel length and swing well.
 
Wounded animals= Gotta Shoot Shot...when you really SHOULD wait and get a good shot. I love ML hunting,with shoulder issues easier than trad archery now in my years and the late hunt being cold here in Montana.But30 years at it! ANY gun is the right gun,if you know YOUR gun,for an offhand shot,if you have to take that shot to help put an animal down.
That is why I am so against the ML shooters coming into the sport wanting a scope with 250 yard mentality shooting.When you wound that gorgeous Buck/Bull you now have to reload to go after him,not just rack in another shell and hopefully wound him to death! My longest shot 75 yds,laying prone,thru the heart,but normally 50 yds . But I know my gun!
 
Longbow said:
Wounded animals= Gotta Shoot Shot...when you really SHOULD wait and get a good shot. I love ML hunting,with shoulder issues easier than trad archery now in my years and the late hunt being cold here in Montana.But30 years at it! ANY gun is the right gun,if you know YOUR gun,for an offhand shot,if you have to take that shot to help put an animal down.
That is why I am so against the ML shooters coming into the sport wanting a scope with 250 yard mentality shooting.When you wound that gorgeous Buck/Bull you now have to reload to go after him,not just rack in another shell and hopefully wound him to death! My longest shot 75 yds,laying prone,thru the heart,but normally 50 yds . But I know my gun!
Click to expand...
You seem to feel that anything long range always wounds animals and never results in a humane kill, even on other forums.
250yds with today's rifles is a chip shot. Is that range for everyone? No, absolutely not, but a lot of people do know their gun and are very capable.
 
No...250 yds with a ML.... A big difference over a modern rifle. Range Master for years,I see and help alot of shooters to be better shots.Is that wrong?
 
Longbow said:
No...250 yds with a ML.... A big difference over a modern rifle. Range Master for years,I see and help alot of shooters to be better shots.Is that wrong?
Click to expand...

Most all long range muzzleloader shooters are very proficient shooting long range, both target and hunting. This site is full of long range (>200yds) shooters, hunting and target.

Modern custom muzzleloaders are shooting a mile. They shoot 1,000yds easily. You should review some of the videos of 500yd shooting at Friendship.

250yds is a chip shot for a modern inline rifle, with the right combination of propellant and bullet, along with a competent shooter. Understand that with some rifles and charges, energy at 500yds is 1,400fp, plenty.
No, there's nothing wrong with being a range master and helping others. However, many custom muzzleloaders outperform any centerfire.
 
ENCORE50A said:
250yds with today's rifles is a chip shot. Is that range for everyone? No, absolutely not, but a lot of people do know their gun and are very capable.
Click to expand...

The problem today is too many inexperienced people [inexperienced in either guns and hunting in general or inexperienced in muzzleloaders] buy into the muzzies and get sighted at 75-100 yards then make assumptions that they know where the bullets hits at 200 yards. In the last two years alone I know at least a dozen people who decided that having that extra season with a muzzleloader was just what they needed. They buy the guns and package everything to shoot it. Some never cleaned after sighting and had issues just loading when the season came up. Some decided it was too cold. Some poked holes in deer that ran off and weren't recovered because chancy shots were taken and the shooters were either too lazy to track or they had zero experience in tracking.

Chip shots are those who are prepared well in advance and know what their limits are....something an awful lot of newcomers to the sport fail to recognize.

In all hunting sports I think in recent years the climb in inexperienced gun owners/hunters hitting the fields and woods has accounted for a ton of lost and wasted game.
 
MrTom said:
The problem today is too many inexperienced people [inexperienced in either guns and hunting in general or inexperienced in muzzleloaders] buy into the muzzies and get sighted at 75-100 yards then make assumptions that they know where the bullets hits at 200 yards. In the last two years alone I know at least a dozen people who decided that having that extra season with a muzzleloader was just what they needed. They buy the guns and package everything to shoot it. Some never cleaned after sighting and had issues just loading when the season came up. Some decided it was too cold. Some poked holes in deer that ran off and weren't recovered because chancy shots were taken and the shooters were either too lazy to track or they had zero experience in tracking.

Chip shots are those who are prepared well in advance and know what their limits are....something an awful lot of newcomers to the sport fail to recognize.

In all hunting sports I think in recent years the climb in inexperienced gun owners/hunters hitting the fields and woods has accounted for a ton of lost and wasted game.
Click to expand...

Yup, there are those who have no clue what they're doing, but I would suggest that that number is actually dropping rather than increasing. This site and many like it are without question helping new shooters and the inexperienced.
Unfortunately, there has ALWAYS been "that group" that are uninformed, unfamiliar and inadequate shooters, always will be. It just cracks me up when some guys appear to believe that all the buffalo were killed with one shot and none ever wasted.
However, any shooter/hunter that puts his/her time in on the range shooting long range, should not be placed into "that group" of uninformed, unfamiliar and inadequate shooters. There's some really good long range hunters and shooters on this site.
 
ENCORE50A said:
Most all long range muzzleloader shooters are very proficient shooting long range, both target and hunting. This site is full of long range (>200yds) shooters, hunting and target.

Modern custom muzzleloaders are shooting a mile. They shoot 1,000yds easily. You should review some of the videos of 500yd shooting at Friendship.

250yds is a chip shot for a modern inline rifle, with the right combination of propellant and bullet, along with a competent shooter. Understand that with some rifles and charges, energy at 500yds is 1,400fp, plenty.
No, there's nothing wrong with being a range master and helping others. However, many custom muzzleloaders outperform any centerfire.
Click to expand...
Again, I’m new here, but I would agree that the site is full of knowledgeable and proficient long range gunners. But I see quite a few people coming through the local range from other parts of the country, checking sights before going afield, and I have seen many a duffer toting all of the latest kit, proficient to a hundred yards, no more and sometimes less. I’ve noticed a tendency among sportsmen, (golfers, shooters, archers, motorcyclists, fishermen, what have you) to try to buy proficiency with their pocketbooks. I also guided a bunch in my youth and saw this continually back then so it’s not a new phenomenon. Some years it was rare to have a sport whose abilities came close to the capability of his equipment.

Ed McGivern was once asked if anyone would ever top his record of firing five rounds from a .38 revolver into a playing card target at 15 yards. He said, “Of course, the guns can do it.”

YOU may be capable of fine field accuracy with a suitable weapon, but don’t make the assumption that the next guy will put in the trigger time to be so.

I’m new to this site so indulge my ignorance for a moment. Which muzzleloaders outperform any center fire?
 
Bad Karma said:
..............................I’m new to this site so indulge my ignorance for a moment. Which muzzleloaders outperform any center fire?
Click to expand...

I can't be positive that anyone will put in the trigger time to be proficient at 200yds+. But, I can assure you, there are shooters that are not proficient at 50yds.

Drop down to the long range forum. Drop down to the smokeless section. Many of your questions can be answered there.

But, my rifle will put 5 into a single hole at 100yds and shoot .3moa at 600yds. Others are better.

No way would I say that there are not those who have no clue what they're doing. That's evident in some posts. However and again, there are many long range hunters and shooters on this site.

Inline Hunters Match May 2020 | Precision Muzzle Loading at the NMLRA - YouTube

July 2020 APEX HUNTER Long Range Precision Muzzle Loading Rifle Match | NMLRA - YouTube

Long Range Muzzle Loading SHOOT OFF | Blackhorn 209 | Precision Rifles - YouTube

500 YARD ML SHOOT OFF - 2018 Midwest Muzzleloader Classic - YouTube
 
To suggest that the poster should use whatever gun fits him or handles well is a totally nutty idea. All of the different style guns and manufactures makes it impossible to check them all out. Can someone please tell me where I can handle a Knight Ultra Light or a Z5 Omega. The poster asked for an opinion and he should get that. To simply say whatever suits him is a worthless answer to his question.
 
Bad Karma said:
Again, I’m new here, but I would agree that the site is full of knowledgeable and proficient long range gunners. But I see quite a few people coming through the local range from other parts of the country, checking sights before going afield, and I have seen many a duffer toting all of the latest kit, proficient to a hundred yards, no more and sometimes less. I’ve noticed a tendency among sportsmen, (golfers, shooters, archers, motorcyclists, fishermen, what have you) to try to buy proficiency with their pocketbooks. I also guided a bunch in my youth and saw this continually back then so it’s not a new phenomenon. Some years it was rare to have a sport whose abilities came close to the capability of his equipment.

Ed McGivern was once asked if anyone would ever top his record of firing five rounds from a .38 revolver into a playing card target at 15 yards. He said, “Of course, the guns can do it.”

YOU may be capable of fine field accuracy with a suitable weapon, but don’t make the assumption that the next guy will put in the trigger time to be so.

I’m new to this site so indulge my ignorance for a moment. Which muzzleloaders outperform any center fire?
Click to expand...
Any depending on the shooter/Ed
 
Bad Karma said:
Again, I’m new here, but I would agree that the site is full of knowledgeable and proficient long range gunners. But I see quite a few people coming through the local range from other parts of the country, checking sights before going afield, and I have seen many a duffer toting all of the latest kit, proficient to a hundred yards, no more and sometimes less. I’ve noticed a tendency among sportsmen, (golfers, shooters, archers, motorcyclists, fishermen, what have you) to try to buy proficiency with their pocketbooks. I also guided a bunch in my youth and saw this continually back then so it’s not a new phenomenon. Some years it was rare to have a sport whose abilities came close to the capability of his equipment.

Ed McGivern was once asked if anyone would ever top his record of firing five rounds from a .38 revolver into a playing card target at 15 yards. He said, “Of course, the guns can do it.”

YOU may be capable of fine field accuracy with a suitable weapon, but don’t make the assumption that the next guy will put in the trigger time to be so.

I’m new to this site so indulge my ignorance for a moment. Which muzzleloaders outperform any center fire?
Click to expand...
I assume nothing ,I go with show and tell .I hang out with some great trigger pullers and don"t see the folks your speaking about . But I know for a fact hanging out with this crowd and learning tricks of the trade can do wonders for your learning curve/Ed
 

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