Breech plug question

[Grouse]

Encore50A,
Your asking the question, then your saying Bestill gave the best answer?? But his answer is against what Knight and T/C recommends for example on there plugs. And this was several years ago when I got this information when the Omega was still in production. So have the manufactures changed and now want a recommended foot lbs to be set on breech plugs now?

 

[Grouse]

A properly fitting breech plug80-100 in lbs would be plenty or 10 ft lbs

I tighten mine very tight, but I shoot BH209. The norm really with people shooting Pyrodex, and 777 is after the plug is tight backing it off a hair. I used to do that but really never liked that idea and wouldn't do it anymore if I did still shoot 777 for example.

 

[long shot]

Encore50A,
Your asking the question, then your saying Bestill gave the best answer?? But his answer is against what Knight and T/C recommends for example on there plugs. And this was several years ago when I got this information when the Omega was still in production. So have the manufactures changed and now want a recommended foot lbs to be set on breech plugs now?

Gave best answer because he tried to answer the question.

 

[WV Hunter]

Encore, I have never measured either. I tighten mine snugged up tight, plus a little more, but not buried. Never had an issue with a plug yet using Pyro or BH...so I haven't changed my method. Right or wrong, idk. I guess I'm not much help. :?

Truthfully, I've never looked on any of my rifles what it "should" be.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Encore50A,
Your asking the question, then your saying Bestill gave the best answer?? But his answer is against what Knight and T/C recommends for example on there plugs. And this was several years ago when I got this information when the Omega was still in production. So have the manufactures changed and now want a recommended foot lbs to be set on breech plugs now?

What were those manufacturer's recommendations (Knight and T/C)? If you have that data, please share it.

Bestill gave a figure, not a WAG. That's what I'm looking for. Data.

 

[Grouse]

Encore50A,
Your asking the question, then your saying Bestill gave the best answer?? But his answer is against what Knight and T/C recommends for example on there plugs. And this was several years ago when I got this information when the Omega was still in production. So have the manufactures changed and now want a recommended foot lbs to be set on breech plugs now?

What were those manufacturer's recommendations (Knight and T/C)? If you have that data, please share it.

Bestill gave a figure, not a WAG. That's what I'm looking for. Data.

LOL, collect your data. My answer is NO

 

[Muley Hunter]

Pretty hard to get exact figures if nobody torques the BP.

 

[WTM45]

As most manufactures do not specify a torque measurement when installing a breech plug, seems the only logical answer would be the torque necessary is equal to the torque available to be applied BY HAND using the manufacturer supplied tool.

 

[Grouse]

Pretty hard to get exact figures if nobody torques the BP.

Ive never heard of such a thing myself so that's why im just going to listen to were this is going. I looked up a post on Dougs about this and went threw it and most don't tork a plug with Smokeless powders. Another thing I was reading was torqueing the breech plug threads by design also weaken the threads??? Just what I read. And I think its track of the wolf that also claims do not torque a breech plug on your muzzleloader. But I do the opposite cause my plug is torqued, I just never measured how much.

 

[bestill]

Imo manufactures don't usually give specs to mass sold rifles because of lack of knowledge of when a plug freely turns in and bottoms out compared to a poorly maintained rifle that has to be forced in because of carbon build up. Which would wreck torque specs..
A plug should easily thread in with no handle until bottoms out and then tightened or torqued if you want..
Most have a hollow 7/16 head so cant use 5/8 or 11/16 bolt torque specs .
It's my opinion10 ft lbs would be on high side of what is needed.

5-6 ft lbs would be sufficient any more your constantly pushing sealing surface of plug and barrel losing head space .

 

[ENCORE50A]

Pretty hard to get exact figures if nobody torques the BP.

Ive never heard of such a thing myself so that's why im just going to listen to were this is going. I looked up a post on Dougs about this and went threw it and most don't tork a plug with Smokeless powders. Another thing I was reading was torqueing the breech plug threads by design also weaken the threads??? Just what I read. And I think its track of the wolf that also claims do not torque a breech plug on your muzzleloader. But I do the opposite cause my plug is torqued, I just never measured how much.

No matter how much anyone knows, and that certainly includes me, it appears that no one knows the technical specifications. Now rather one cares or not, that's going to depend on the individual. Most don't and "If it works, I'm doing it right." Everything should have a specification, rather its a yard stick or a spark plug torque. So what everyone is saying is, they tighten theirs, but they don't have a clue how tight.

 

[Muley Hunter]

bestill....Use a torque wrench and see how little 5-6lbs is. I'm not saying you're wrong in that it's all it needs, but I bet most guys use much more with no harm.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Imo manufactures don't usually give specs to mass sold rifles because of lack of knowledge of when a plug freely turns in and bottoms out compared to a poorly maintained rifle that has to be forced in because of carbon build up. Which would wreck torque specs..
A plug should easily thread in with no handle until bottoms out and then tightened or torqued if you want..
Most have a hollow 7/16 head so cant use 5/8 or 11/16 bolt torque specs .
It's my opinion10 ft lbs would be on high side of what is needed.

5-6 ft lbs would be sufficient any more your constantly pushing sealing surface of plug and barrel losing head space .

Agreed.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Pretty hard to get exact figures if nobody torques the BP.

Ive never heard of such a thing myself so that's why im just going to listen to were this is going. I looked up a post on Dougs about this and went threw it and most don't tork a plug with Smokeless powders. Another thing I was reading was torqueing the breech plug threads by design also weaken the threads??? Just what I read. And I think its track of the wolf that also claims do not torque a breech plug on your muzzleloader. But I do the opposite cause my plug is torqued, I just never measured how much.

No matter how much anyone knows, and that certainly includes me, it appears that no one knows the technical specifications. Now rather one cares or not, that's going to depend on the individual. Most don't and "If it works, I'm doing it right." Everything should have a specification, rather its a yard stick or a spark plug torque. So what everyone is saying is, they tighten theirs, but they don't have a clue how tight.

Yes, it's what we're saying. We could use from 5lbs to 50lbs and have it work. It something that doesn't seem to be that critical in performance.

 

[bestill]

bestill....Use a torque wrench and see how little 5-6lbs is. I'm not saying you're wrong in that it's all it needs, but I bet most guys use much more with no harm.

Im very competent with a torque wrench and simply answered question and for me 6 ft lbs or 80 in lbs is plenty and no more is needed with properly cleaned gun and good sealing plug.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Good sealing plug being the key words.

 

[bestill]

Most quality7/16 thin wall sockets proof at 55 ft lbs before they split or round off head so the 5-50 ft lbs would probably cause a issue..

 

[ENCORE50A]

bestill....Use a torque wrench and see how little 5-6lbs is. I'm not saying you're wrong in that it's all it needs, but I bet most guys use much more with no harm.

Im very competent with a torque wrench and simply answered question and for me 6 ft lbs or 80 in lbs is plenty and no more is needed with properly cleaned gun and good sealing plug.

Now we're getting some place.

Next question for YOU IS...... 80ip is plenty, I agree. Now, in your opinion, is there a minimum?

 

[lptroll]

I think the simple answer to your question is "no".

 

[WTM45]

Is a minimum torque spec important? I'd say no where near as important as the chosen thread specs, materials used and dimensional characteristics of the breech plug and interior barrel. Thankfully the build design engineers have done that calculation for us. I hope...