I know flounder . Youre ok . I just think outside the box . You see dead people in boxes . Not much thinkin going on in there . I believe we are right . If its worth having its worth taking care of . Ive presented a new idea of a ,IMO , better way to do just that . That never swalllows easily , especially by a new guy . They didnt know , to their defense , that im an engineer . A damn good inovative one at that . But i was bothered by the fact that i dont know them either or their word to be trusted . I didnt come here to ruffle feathers , theirs , mine , or anybodies . Certainly not . I only speak out to help someone or keep from harm gun or man . I think sealing the plug is a smart move . Whether it is believed or not . Nice to meet you flounder !!!
Breechplug and BH209
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Another point I would like to bring up is the importance of the mating surfaces ( the end of the breech plug and where it contacts your barrel) to be clean as a whistle. I made my own wooden tool for getting the end of the barrel where it contacts the breech plug clean. put a patch on the end of that and turn it several rotations.
Conventional cleaning methods don't clean this area well enough IMO.
Conventional cleaning methods don't clean this area well enough IMO.
Excellant flounder !!! I do much the same thing !!! I have even gone so far as to use valve grinding compound on the end of my breech plug and snugged and loosened it repeatedly to form a perfect seal ( bp and barrel) where they mate together on my knight . Leave no stone unturned is what i try to do. Im glad you brought that up to clean there . Very Nice !!!
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I have a can of brake cleaner handy that has a small thin tube for spraying very close in areas. This works great for cleaning that dead end area of the breech and the threads themselves. I give it a good soaking, then use a 16 gauge brush to work any thing from the threads that the spray won't move, then give the breech another spraying. I use a dowel and a 3" round patch to dry the threads and mating surface at the end of the barrel which also picks up any debris that is stubborn.
Another good method !!! Its gotta be clean AND sealed . I may be wrong BUT i think if the savage ML2 guys would seal their plugs mating surfaces bp to barrel like i did useing valve grinding compound and kept them clean afterwards , they wouldnt have exploded the barrels and the gun would still be available . Never handled one but the gas cutting on the end of the breech plug caused these catastrophies of exploded barrels . Just sayin...... I know the threads stopped way short of the end of the plug and created an air pocket that was accessed from gas cutting . Why fool around with that possibility of a gas cut at all on anything ??? IMO do all you can to avoid a SITUATION !!! There , now i feel better.....
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That is one theory by one person who had a bone to pick with Savage and Henry Ball. Ive never seen a single pic of the plug ever cutting loose from those kabooms. They all looked like there was another cause. Its highly unlikely flame cutting caused a barrel to split several inches down the barrel.
Pics ive seen show this cutting on the ends of the plugs exposing an air space on those guns . Ive never had one in my hands damaged or brand new , only the drawings FWIW , that is My conclusion . Obviously there was some kind of issue . I have no axe to grind with Savage or Mr Ball . (Had to take a call , sorry for the delay) From what pics ive seen the plug didnt blow out , but the area where the threads stopped till where it seated in the front of the plug has been exploded along with the beginning of the barrel . What i offered was not a bad idea to possibly stop this from happening , possibly for any mz to be damaged from gas cutting . That is not a bad thing . I believe that That is good service to anyone that uses /maintaines a mz regardless of its make that relies on a front seal .
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You claimed it caused the kaboom. I see no evidence of that at all.
Like i said , its just my opinion .
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Ive owned 2 of them and as an owner thats mine. My 45cal has shot loads far hotter than the OEM 50 with the factory style plug. I have no erosion but it does happen. No sealant or tape is going to stop it without a design change.
You probably don't have anywhere near the number of shots on your rifles, that were on those rifles. I shot both that rifle and another of his in Hastings, MI, way back in 2003. At that time it had several thousands of shots through it. He was traveling the US, promoting smokeless muzzleloading.
I believe it was the next year, 2004, when the rifle came unglued at a range demonstration for MDOC.
I've never owned a Savage, but I have a Semi-Custom 1:20 twist .45 cal that uses a Savage breechplug. I've had it for over 8 years, but have only shot Blackhorn 209 in it, as planned.
I think the problem with the Savage rifles in question were a combination of the breech plug and rifles with more shots on them than 10 average shooters would put on a rifle in their collective lifetimes. If you recall, there were several shooting sessions during the hot summer heat, where damp towels were pulled from coolers of ice water to cool the barrels between shots. There's no denying that the breech plugs were severely gas cut from being used for to long, and there is no doubt that the mating shoulder on the barrel was too. How could it not be?
My take is it was a combination of metal fatigue (from the ice cold towels and hot barrel) over time from several thousands of shots (several experimental establishing loads for Savage), the severely gas cut breech plug / sealing surface, and duplex powder loads were the catalyst.
I'm not worried about it in my smoker, as I don't use those exotic powders, nor ice water towels to cool the barrel for sabots. The number of shots and pressures are no where near the levels those rifles were subjected to.
I believe it was the next year, 2004, when the rifle came unglued at a range demonstration for MDOC.
I've never owned a Savage, but I have a Semi-Custom 1:20 twist .45 cal that uses a Savage breechplug. I've had it for over 8 years, but have only shot Blackhorn 209 in it, as planned.
I think the problem with the Savage rifles in question were a combination of the breech plug and rifles with more shots on them than 10 average shooters would put on a rifle in their collective lifetimes. If you recall, there were several shooting sessions during the hot summer heat, where damp towels were pulled from coolers of ice water to cool the barrels between shots. There's no denying that the breech plugs were severely gas cut from being used for to long, and there is no doubt that the mating shoulder on the barrel was too. How could it not be?
My take is it was a combination of metal fatigue (from the ice cold towels and hot barrel) over time from several thousands of shots (several experimental establishing loads for Savage), the severely gas cut breech plug / sealing surface, and duplex powder loads were the catalyst.
I'm not worried about it in my smoker, as I don't use those exotic powders, nor ice water towels to cool the barrel for sabots. The number of shots and pressures are no where near the levels those rifles were subjected to.
Busta thank you for your post . Other than a design change to a rear sealing plug with full length sealed threads without air pocket , which IMO would be best , admittedly this and other factors were involved . Overstressed components as well as long overdue part replacement , and lack of prudent maintanance were apparently all involved . Two machined screwed together surfaces cant provide an absolute perfect (as best man can accomplish) seal without lapping them in together with a carefully done procedure . There is nothing available to compare to that . If proper maintanace would have been done , including lapping as required with plug replacement combined with barrel setback if required ,and no thermal shock(this i was unaware of) as delivered it probably would have been ok , IMO . Any way you look at it , it is indeed a pity as it didnt HAVE to be this way , IMO . Lapping is a DAMN FINE IDEA for ANY mz , as ive previously stated , to help fight gas cutting along with other previously mentioned techniques of cleaning and sealing . IMO , of course .
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