Is 60 grains of powder enough?

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i have a umarex gauntlet PCP .25 and i have put a pellet through the skull on a doe shot the day before . it doesn't take much to kill a deer with a head shot . a shot any where else would just be ignorant with my gauntlet . i'd never hunt deer with my gauntlet though . my lady got me a nice crossbow last christmas and i'm in the process of getting my muzzleloader gear setup so i have much more effective equipment . my gauntlet is awesome for small game critters and nuisance though .
everything isn't for everybody .
 
My understanding is the standard Civil War . 58 cal load was 60gr BP with the minie. Seemed to do the job!

Service charge was 60g 2f. We shoot Civil War guns in competition and my competition musket will shoot 2-3in at 100yd with 42g 3f Swiss and a 425gr minie. Just going by paper ballistics, that's about 2x a 44mag at 20yd and nobody says it can't get the job done.
 
Service charge was 60g 2f. We shoot Civil War guns in competition and my competition musket will shoot 2-3in at 100yd with 42g 3f Swiss and a 425gr minie. Just going by paper ballistics, that's about 2x a 44mag at 20yd and nobody says it can't get the job done.
Back in the day my brother and I both belonged to NSSA and did reenactments etc. We used .58 caliber Zouaves or Springfields. Both were very popular, and very accurate!
 
Back in the day my brother and I both belonged to NSSA and did reenactments etc. We used .58 caliber Zouaves or Springfields. Both were very popular, and very accurate!

My Parker Hale musketoon is a honest 2-3moa iron sighted carbine with RCBS Hogdons and 42g 3f Swiss. I wouldn't hesitate to drop the hammer on Bambi with that gun. It's going to punch a nice big 58cal hole all the way through if it doesn't hit bone and if it does, pure lead expands better than any geewhiz jacketed bullet.
 
WOW only 30gr powder. Cool!
Sweet little shooters those Smiths… recoil with 30 grain loads is almost nonexistent and they are a dream to carry. I’m looking into cartridges which would hold the service load of 50 grains 2 or 3f. One of these days I’ll chronograph the gun. Yes, kinetic energy is low. Someone said half of the recommendation for deer, still, under 75 yards or so that slow 385 grain bullet would leave a hell of a mark. Anything it hits is gonna stay hit.
 
Sweet little shooters those Smiths… recoil with 30 grain loads is almost nonexistent and they are a dream to carry. I’m looking into cartridges which would hold the service load of 50 grains 2 or 3f. One of these days I’ll chronograph the gun. Yes, kinetic energy is low. Someone said half of the recommendation for deer, still, under 75 yards or so that slow 385 grain bullet would leave a hell of a mark. Anything it hits is gonna stay hit.

When you look at this objectively, nobody thinks that the 44mag is too light for deer, but most black powder arms have far more power at target than the 44 does. A heavy bullet doesn't slow down much. Where the issue lies is knowing how to shoot. Black powder/muzzleloading guns have a trajectory that must be accounted for and many modern shooters forget that so they resort to the latest, sabot shooting inline to compensate.
 
When you look at this objectively, nobody thinks that the 44mag is too light for deer, but most black powder arms have far more power at target than the 44 does. A heavy bullet doesn't slow down much. Where the issue lies is knowing how to shoot. Black powder/muzzleloading guns have a trajectory that must be accounted for and many modern shooters forget that so they resort to the latest, sabot shooting inline to compensate.
I agree with your post and would add, that follow through is important in traditional BP shooting. It is not the modern nano sec lock time, especially with a flinter! You must stay on target and follow through the entire sequence without changing position etc if you want to hit where you aim! (IMHO)
 
Dave and snake thanks for that info . Makes me feel more confident about choosing xpt 250's and I didn't know inlines need a longer follow through due to a longer firing cycle . 👍
 
When you look at this objectively, nobody thinks that the 44mag is too light for deer, but most black powder arms have far more power at target than the 44 does. A heavy bullet doesn't slow down much. Where the issue lies is knowing how to shoot. Black powder/muzzleloading guns have a trajectory that must be accounted for and many modern shooters forget that so they resort to the latest, sabot shooting inline to compensate.
Exactly right. The biggest advantage an inline or modern cartridge has is the velocity and consequently flat trajectory. And it is quite an advantage.
 
Exactly right. The biggest advantage an inline or modern cartridge has is the velocity and consequently flat trajectory. And it is quite an advantage.
Agree, it is a tremendous advantage ,which is why I believe they should not be allowed during ML season. Might as well use a Reg rifle. No discernible difference out to 200 yrds with a Scoped, tuned, InLine (IMHO)
 
Our State requirement is No Scope over 1x, Reddot or iron sights during muzzleloader season, +x allowed during rifle season, course our muzzleloader season is after rifle season.
 
Shooting heavy conicals like most of us do with White ML inlines from 350- 400 plus conicals you need to know where they hit at various ranges. While I wouldn’t shoot that far from sighting in at 100 yds I would have to aim about 24”plus above where I want the bullet to hit.
 
With that loading, you'll be more than fine. Despite what the big gun/ammo companies try to claim; penetration, combined with a hole large enough not to clot effectively, through the chest is enough to kill everything (high impact velocity and engineered-expansion bullets aren't necessarily bad, but I mostly view/have observed velocity as a tool to make it easier to hit stuff at an unknown range and expanding bullets as being unreliable). Air Rifles have come a long way since when I was a kid, but even then, people were taking deer with light .45 pellets at mouse-fart-firearm-loading velocities. You could honestly go down to a 45-50gr charge and a 300gr (if .50) or a 250gr (.45) bullet and have .45 colt-type performance (meant to kill horses and men at distance).

Once you select a heavy-enough bullet to ensure adequate penetration, the biggest challenge is hitting the animal, but at 50 yards, that's a non-issue (provided you can shoot). Like Sir Samuel Baker, I generally advise people stay away from HP/engineered-expansion bullets, I've found their performance to be unreliable in all but ballistic gel lol.

As far as the difference between traditional ML's and Modern Inlines... there's really not that big of a difference, especially when using BP. There is a noticeable improvement in the consistency of the lock time (not necessarily the speed) going from flinters to percussion, but after that, not so much. You'll find more variation between specific designs than you'll find generally between "inlines" and "sidelocks" (with BP or Pyrodex, BH209/smokeless is another can of worms). Even still, if you can shoot, you won't be able to tell a practical difference between them (flintlock requires a little more follow-through, in the event of a slower ignition). They had inlines in the 1700's, and it was an increasingly popular design feature in the 1840's-onward, if it was that significant of an improvement, people of means would have tripped over themselves to buy them, yet only some did. The difference between a ML and a BP metallic cartridge gun is generally only 150-200fps difference, hardly enough to worry about (add a 5-10gr powder if it bothers you). Comparing modern smokeless cartridge guns to BP ML's is a ridiculous comparison.

Scopes/optical sights- They had them in the 1690's and into the 1700's, they became more widely available in the 1850's. Just because you choose not to use them doesn't mean nobody else should. Same for adjustable sights/folding leaves (which go back to pre-firearm days), just because you don't use them, doesn't mean no one else should, or that it isn't "trad".
 
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Will it work? Sure. Would I do it? Nope. Animals deserve more than marginal loads. If the rifle/bullet/shooter combination can be as accurate (or very close) with more powder, then I’d use more. I killed a bull elk with a 58 caliber 500 grain minie & 65 grains of FFG. Yeah, it worked. But I’d never do it again as that elk deserved better. Yes, my shot placement was literally perfect & the range was around 40 yards. The load was spectacularly unimpressive on flesh but I used it because it was extremely accurate & all the forums said that was the most important thing. I’d have been better off with a more powerful load even if it cost me a bit of accuracy. I learned that lesson well. Rule of thumb: if you have to ask if it’s enough….it probably isn’t.18C206E8-17E2-4092-8A78-0B7F4C236330.jpeg
 
Will it work? Sure. Would I do it? Nope. Animals deserve more than marginal loads. If the rifle/bullet/shooter combination can be as accurate (or very close) with more powder, then I’d use more. I killed a bull elk with a 58 caliber 500 grain minie & 65 grains of FFG. Yeah, it worked. But I’d never do it again as that elk deserved better. Yes, my shot placement was literally perfect & the range was around 40 yards. The load was spectacularly unimpressive on flesh but I used it because it was extremely accurate & all the forums said that was the most important thing. I’d have been better off with a more powerful load even if it cost me a bit of accuracy. I learned that lesson well. Rule of thumb: if you have to ask if it’s enough….it probably isn’t.View attachment 23582
What happened?
 
Kinda like I learned with Air guns... A hole, big enough that it's not able to effectively clot, through the chest of an animal leads to it's demise very quickly... 125gr 9x19mm out of a 6" barrel has nowhere near the "power" of the load you used, yet deer fall to it quickly (yes there is a difference between Elk and WT deer, but even if you increase the energy proportionally, it's still not all that much). There are vids on YT of hunts on Elk and larger animals with air rifles (none of which equal that "marginal" load you used), animal gets hit, usually trots about 10-30 yards, falls down dead. Just because firearms are able to achieve more power, doesn't mean it's needed. Round ball were used effectively for hundreds of years on animals larger than Elk, and often not with extraordinarily large charges either. BP .50-70-500 often gets complete pass throughs on Bison at shorter ranges (yes, there is a SD difference, but it's not so great as to make the bullet ineffective on Elk).

"Needing" super high energy numbers to hunt is a fairly modern (post smokeless powder) thing, pushed by mfg's to sell new guns, cartridges, and powder. Not saying you shouldn't use more, just that you don't need as much as is commonly preached. If you'd believe the marketing, .22LR is "too weak" for coyotes lol.

People that lack personal experience ask questions, so they can gain the benefit of experience without the hard-knocks.
 
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Will it work? Sure. Would I do it? Nope. Animals deserve more than marginal loads. If the rifle/bullet/shooter combination can be as accurate (or very close) with more powder, then I’d use more. I killed a bull elk with a 58 caliber 500 grain minie & 65 grains of FFG. Yeah, it worked. But I’d never do it again as that elk deserved better. Yes, my shot placement was literally perfect & the range was around 40 yards. The load was spectacularly unimpressive on flesh but I used it because it was extremely accurate & all the forums said that was the most important thing. I’d have been better off with a more powerful load even if it cost me a bit of accuracy. I learned that lesson well. Rule of thumb: if you have to ask if it’s enough….it probably isn’t.

Nothing at all marginal about the OP's load. It will kill deer all day long within 50 yds. Will probably get lots of pass thrus and DRT's as well.
He is not going after elk or moose. He is hunting deer under fifty yds. Sounds like a perfect load with a lighter recoil which he is looking for.
 
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