Is this the final word in muzzleloading propellants?

[Trapcat]

Thanks for the report. Sounds interesting.

 

[kevinbrian]

Hey Chuck, I just cannot seem to get the combo that you tested yesterday off of my mind! The Knight KRB, and the Blackhorn powder. I'm curious as to how fast this powder, with standard 209 primers, will wear the flash hole of the breech plug. I never did concern myself much with flashhole wear until I started shooting a ML2. The stainless breech plugs that Knight uses in the KRB can be replaced periodically. It would be great to know how many shots can be fired from your KRB7 and the Blackhorn before accuracy-loss becomes evident due to flashole enlargment.
That is awesome accuracy! I am glad to see such a great report of the KRB ! And the Blackhorn powder! One would almost conclude that they were mean't one for another! 8)
I'm just rambling....

 

[flint head]

I'm thinking that Chuck has the non-fpj plug on the LRH which made the difference with this powder... basicly the LRH is still a disc extreme action.

 

[Cordwood]

Great report!

Wondering...how dirty were the swabs when you went to clean that night? Also would of been a good test to see what residue swabbing would of picked up after the first few shots...just to see. Had to something right?

I see the Black Mag3 on the bottom of the pyramid! :shock: Thats what im using now...all the guys up at Green Top in Glen Allen, Va are using it and said it was better than pyro. I like Black Mag3 so far...but looks like im out the loop on something. Gonna have to do a search on it!

 

[Lee 9]

Excellant report,I have a question or two, do you believe that BH 209 is a progressive burning powder? How much differance does the fit of the bullet and sabot make in velocity or is it some thing else that causes a differance in velocity, other reports are pretty much the same,except for velocity.

 

[Patrick White]

Chuck, you were using the jacketless plug in the LRH right? Which plug were you using in the elite? The standard FPJ plug or the domed plug?

 

[lane]

Chuck, you were using the jacketless plug in the LRH right? Which plug were you using in the elite? The standard FPJ plug or the domed plug?

Yea, what he asked? What plug were you using in the Disc Elite :?:
I've got a modified dome plug I'm sure would ignite that powder :wink:

Where can we get some of dat powder? :?: :?: :?:


BTW, GREAT REPORT 8)

 

[Spitpatch]

Chuck,
I too am wondering... why the dif between the LRH and the Elite?

Also which gun have you chosen NOT to clean for the corrosion test?

 

[Underclocked]

Chuck ran off to the hills and I don't blame him. :wink:

 

[Trapcat]

Here chuck- Here chuck

 

[big6x6]

In due time boys! :lol:

I was surprised you did not try the 200 gr shockwaves. I bet it will be well into 2200 fps at 120 gr charge.

I brought 'em to try BUT...the wind REALLY got up around noon(I started at 630am :shock: ) so I stopped shooting.

What did the primer pocket look like after all that shooting?

Much, MUCH less residue around the action/breechplug area than when using any other propellant to date.

The LHR and the Disc Elite have the same ignition system. Why would the LHR do fine with this powder and the Disc Elite have problems?

Not so. While EARLIER LRHs had the FPJ ignition system ONLY..later ones, including mine, have BOTH ignition systems. I have been using the NON-FPJ ignition system the whole time in my LRH.

How hard did the various bullets/sabots shove down the barrel.

Really EASY! I was actually worried about ignition problems with the 250gr Knight/Barnes PBT they seated so easily.. Of course I had none except where noted.

Was this a special test offering to you or can the powder be bought at this time ?

None available as of YET. Look for it at Midwayusa, Grafs, and Sportsmans Warehouse around the first part of April.

Wondering...how dirty were the swabs when you went to clean that night?

Have yet to clean it! :wink:

do you believe that BH 209 is a progressive burning powder? How much differance does the fit of the bullet and sabot make in velocity or is it some thing else that causes a differance in velocity, other reports are pretty much the same,except for velocity.

Progressive? I have no idea. Bullet/sabot fit ALWAYS makes a different with any propellant. Velocity differences can be due to any number of factors. BTW...All velocity data was gathered using a ProChrono chronograph.

Chuck, you were using the jacketless plug in the LRH right? Which plug were you using in the elite? The standard FPJ plug or the domed plug?

Yes...LRH-jacketless plug. In the Disc Elite I was using the domed plug. I wonder if the old-style plug would light it off? :idea:

Also which gun have you chosen NOT to clean for the corrosion test?

Spit...RIGHT NOW I have about $1200.00 worth of UN-CLEANED muzzleloaders! :shock: I'm not worried about it... :wink:

OTHER INFO...
I weighed both 100gr BY VOLUME ffg Triple Se7en and Blackhorn 209 yesterday. No tapping, stirring, seances, etc.. :lol: Just leveled off the charge with the U-view measure. The Triple Se7en weighs 69.33gr BY WEIGHT while Blackhorn 209 weighed 67.08gr BY WEIGHT.

 

[Patrick White]

Chuck, you were using the jacketless plug in the LRH right? Which plug were you using in the elite? The standard FPJ plug or the domed plug?

Yes...LRH-jacketless plug. In the Disc Elite I was using the domed plug. I wonder if the old-style plug would light it off? :idea:

I don't know. Might be worth a test but I ain't switching back. :? Hows the discless plug for blowback? I might have to get one for my Extreme.

 

[big6x6]

Hows the discless plug for blowback? I might have to get one for my Extreme.

On my LHR...there is ZERO blowback with the FPJless plug. Not one bit of crap on my Nikon Omega scope either. I really think you would like it!

 

[Mike Vaccaro]

For the sake of new guys, me included. Will this powder work in a "stock" ProHunter?

Thanks!

 

[sabotloader]

Mike Vaccaro

I certainly can not tell whether it will work in a Pro Hunter, but I certainly think it would. I am confident it will work in my Omega's, because of the breech block holding the primer on place.

From Chuck's descritpion of his experiance and the directions on the can I believe the new BH209 is a progressive burning powder, much like any modern powder. Although in my conversations with the RamShot tech Rep he says it is not a Nitro based powder - but he will not tell you what it might be.

But anyway, if it is a progressive powder as I suspect it must maintain a high amount of pressure to continue to burn, hence their direction that you must have a closed 209 ignition system. In an open system such as my Remingtons or even the White the blow back pressure can push the 209 out of the carrier and breech presure will be lost - therefore the powder will under achieve or even go out. Another fact that is evident is that it requires "heat" to start the ignition and that is kinda an under statement - you might be able to start it with less heat - but you can not sustain it without a lot of heat and pressure. The more heat you apply the more assured you will be that the powder reaches pressure to sustain ignition - IF YOU CAN MAINTAIN PRESSURE until the projectile is nearly out the barrel

Actually I think a lot of Savage shooters could tell you a lot about the loss of pressure when shooting smokeless from their guns. With a progressive powder it's efficiency is based on maintaining heat & pressure through the powder burn

This is all speculation on my part but it sure sounds progressive to me...

 

[cayuga]

just reading it. Excellent report..

 

[double brow]

Great report........THANK YOU.

 

[NimrodRx]

I'll letchya know

Chuck, you were using the jacketless plug in the LRH right? Which plug were you using in the elite? The standard FPJ plug or the domed plug?

Yes...LRH-jacketless plug. In the Disc Elite I was using the domed plug. I wonder if the old-style plug would light it off? :idea:

I don't know. Might be worth a test but I ain't switching back. :? Hows the discless plug for blowback? I might have to get one for my Extreme.

I have the original FPJ plug in my Elite. Once I can get my hands on some of this I will let you know if it will ignite.

 

[alphaburnt]

Any plans on shooting the Shockwave or Hornady XTP 200s anytime soon? Looking at kevinbrians posts in the smokeless forum, we might not be pushing them fast enough with T7 out of the Knights!



Also, I was wondering about the shot to shot variance through the chronograph, with the groups that you are shooting- its good, but not as good as your Elite with T7 is it?

 

[big6x6]

Any plans on shooting the Shockwave or Hornady XTP 200s anytime soon? Looking at kevinbrians posts in the smokeless forum, we might not be pushing them fast enough with T7 out of the Knights!



Also, I was wondering about the shot to shot variance through the chronograph, with the groups that you are shooting- its good, but not as good as your Elite with T7 is it?

I HOPE to be shooting some more with the BH209 including the 200gr SSTs/Shockwaves. The one thing I DID notice with this powder is that velocity loss is VERY little when moving to heavier weight bullets ie moving from 250gr to 290gr only cost me 24fps. So in my mind one would be crazy to not go for heavier projectiles with their higher retained energy and better ballistic advantage.

REMEMBER...At NO point was I shooting for BEST accuracy during this range session! I just mainly had four different projectiles with, for the most part, ONE powder charge! I have no doubt in my mind that I will be able to get Disc Elite matching accuracy with this KRB7 and Blackhorn 209.

It was after trying eight DIFFERENT projectiles before I hit on the 200gr SST/blue MMP sabot during three DIFFERENT range sessions!(and about 70 shots by my shooting log!)