large rifle primers in a 209 skirt ?

[Sideshow]

Possibly, but I doubt it would work, at least not reliably. It is not just the firing pin strike that sets off the primer. It is the combination of the strike driving the primer compound into the anvil. With the primer sitting "Suspended " in the cup there would be nothing for the anvil to sit on. The Firing pin strike would just "Seat" the primer the rest of the way in the cup. I helped trouble shoot a new reloader having an issue like this several years ago. Boiled down to some bad brass and pockets cut way too deep, so took 2 strikes to set off the primer.

Just my 2 cents. But I agree too much trouble. Just decapping the spent 209 and cleaning it out would be a pain.

Duplex......same as LRMP , even better

 

[ShawnT]

Duplex what though, Primer on top of a primer?

 

[Sideshow]

Duplex what though, Primer on top of a primer?

T73f under blackhorn . Read above

 

[ShawnT]

T73f under blackhorn

Ok. Never really understood the need to do that, But that would not solve the issue of the primer not igniting reliably. Primer still needs to ignite to ignite any powder.

 

[Sideshow]

Ok. Never really understood the need to do that, But that would not solve the issue of the primer not igniting reliably. Primer still needs to ignite to ignite any powder.

It ignites the T7 first and that flame lights the blackhorn . Bigger reaction . Works good........ " duplex "

 

[ShawnT]

I understand the concept just never seen the need to do it. Some have done that to make a Plunger rifle work. I personally would not recommend it in that respect. Too much trouble to me in other rifles designed for BH.

But I think your missing what I was talking about. I was not talking about igniting the charge, though that is the result you want. The ignition I am talking about is just getting the primer alone to ignite.

 

[ShawnT]

Maybe this would help with what I was trying to say. See the difference in the height of the 209 verses the LRMP? You can see the anvil sticking up out of the new LRMP on the right. It would need to be seated onto something such as the bottom of the pocket in the cup to ignite the primer compound. That Primer compound ignition needs to happen so that it can ignite the powder. Powder type or duplexing powders don't contribute to the ignition of the primer itself. No powder in the rifle is needed to ignite a primer. If you look at the pocket depth on the variflame or a CF cartridge you will see that the pocket is much shallower for the LRMP/LRP.

 

[ENCORE50A]

If you have to duplex BH209, find something else.

 

[bestill]

A sealed 209 primer will perform flawlessly.

 

[MrTom]

If you have to duplex BH209, find something else.

This is good advice. Trying to cobble jockey a load using 2 different powders together for a hunting load would be a nightmare in the field. I wonder how many ml manufacturers would endorse the duplex loading concept? I wonder how many powder makers would?

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Duplex loading is easy, I do it all the time, it takes an extra 5 seconds if you organize it correctly. With that being said, I only duplex with my smokeless 209 muzzleloaders to make sure they go off in very cold weather. My BH209 muzzleloaders all have good sealing 209 primer breech plugs so no need to duplex those.

LR primers in a muzzleloader breech plug have been around for a while. There are many different kinds of breech plugs using them, I personally like the brass module.

I don't think you will see much accuracy improvement, if any, in a blackpowder muzzleloader at 250 yards and closer if your muzzleloader is shooting accurately with 209 primers.

 

[ShawnT]

The OP was asking only about "Re-Priming" a spent 209 primer cup with a Large Rifle Primer.

I think Powders and Duplexing were brought into the thread by a misunderstanding.

 

[marlinmonty]

Morning . I see now that I could have worded this more clear . What I seen was a 209 hull made for a LR primer to be put into .
http://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm

 

[marlinmonty]

Again I find this very interesting but as usual I am late to the party ,LOL . I do enjoy when people with a passion explain these topics . Once long ago I found a website call " Bob the oil guy" I was completely blown away at the depth of knowledge , I see the same here and Its amazing to read how fine a subject can be chewed , and than shared ! Thank you fellas !
I should have been MUCH more clear in describing what I thought I had seen .

Thank you all very much . MM

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Morning . I see now that I could have worded this more clear . What I seen was a 209 hull made for a LR primer to be put into .
http://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm

I really like that design/system but have never used it. I think it may have been one of the first of it's type and inspiration to others. It seems to have mixed reviews. Some love it some not so much. I think the problem with it may be that the metal is too hard and doesn't always seal as well as something softer.

 

[GM54-120]

You can achieve what you want with the PR LRMP modules but it will take some tinkering and you will need a 22 hornet shell holder. You will also need to figure out a way to make them seal better and open up your breach plug to fit the modules. The way Cecil cuts his plugs is for metal to metal fit but that is not deep enough for a oring to seal them. Without the oring they will leak like mad and eventually flame cut your breach plug.

 

[50calsabot]

Personally never heard of trying to reload a spent 209 primer cup with a LRP. Not too sure it would work as I would think the LRP would be seated to low in the cup to allow the firing pin to strike it. IF left up high enough for the firing pin to hit it then the strike would just push it deeper in the cup and most likely not set off the primer.
Maybe what you have been hearing about is the VariFlame Adapter?

 

[50calsabot]

Hello ShawnT,
I am a newbie getting back into BP Rifles after a long break.
Your lists of muzzle loaders in your posts gave me the idea to ask you about Speer .45 300 grain in 50 cal sabot for hunting and any actual results with this bullet.
The load would be t7 loose powder starting at 70 grain and working up.
We are thinking Knight rifles will our brand to use.

 

[ShawnT]

Hello ShawnT,
I am a newbie getting back into BP Rifles after a long break.
Your lists of muzzle loaders in your posts gave me the idea to ask you about Speer .45 300 grain in 50 cal sabot for hunting and any actual results with this bullet.
The load would be t7 loose powder starting at 70 grain and working up.
We are thinking Knight rifles will our brand to use.

If you are talking about the 300gn Speer .452 (45cal) Deep Curl, then yes it is definitely a great hunting bullet. I have used it on several Deer with loads of 100gnV of Pyrodex or BH209. I have shot Deer with the 300DC with that charge from about 50yards to my farthest harvest at 206yrd, and between. Exit holes looked the same on them all (1 1/2" or so with great terminal performance in between". I would not hesitate to use it on something larger like Black Bear too.

If you are talking about this 300gn offering, I have not used it. But It would most likely be just fine since it uses the Uni Core Technology. Of the 2 I would recommend the Deep Curl.
https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bullets/handgun-bullets/jacketed-handgun-bullet/4485

I think at one time the plain 300gn and its little brother the 260 were what Knight used to package with rifles many years ago. Don't know what they ship now.
I just looked at the Knight web site and I am not real sure which that one is, maybe someone else does. Sort of Looks like the Hp on the deep Curl.
You can do better by buying the bullets in Bulk and then buying the sabots separately, usually less expensive that way.
My new favorite bullet is the Lehigh .452 265gn CF. The Bloodlines (Same maker but sold though Knight) are of the same technology and are equally good. The Speer is less money and you would not go wrong with them.

 

[ShawnT]

Morning . I see now that I could have worded this more clear . What I seen was a 209 hull made for a LR primer to be put into .
http://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm

They work just fine, you may have to alter the primer pocket on your Breech plug depending on the rifle. Large Rifle primers are much easier on the Flash hole then 209 primers too.

Here is a link to some work done by Ron.

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/large-rifle-primer-vari-flame-primer-adapter.25098/