Muzzleloader Blow Up

[Matthew323]

I have seen Douglas fir, and cedar tree stumps, 2'-4' in diameter reduced to fist sized, and smaller, bits of wood by an ammonium nitrate fertilizer/diesel fuel ecplosion.

 

[deermanok]

I've seen a lot of people over the years who absolutely had no business being anywhere near a gun. I think of that saying, " you can't fix stupid ".

 

[snapbang]

Years ago before Oklahoma City my Dad and I were visiting one of his farmer friends. The man told the story about using fertilizer and fuel to make trees disappear. Not small ones either but huge oak and maple trees. Frankly I didn't believe him and gently called him out on what I thought was an exaggeration. He stood me up and pointed out the window to a huge tree and said with enough fertilizer and fuel he could make that tree disappear. Im telling you it was a huge tree so I pressed further. There has to be limbs, leaved, stumps, roots or something left. He looked at me as serious as can be and said Im telling you that tree will disappear. I learned after that it was a more common practice than I thought. And yes with enough ( I dont know how much enough is) fertilizer and fuel they could in fact make trees disappear. I did find out there was something left after the explosion. A crater.

 

[Lbtresident]

I agree, take it serious, I’ve seen fertilizer in action as well, potent to say the least. My grandfather used it in much the same way. I sure miss him.

 

[jcnull2305]

I saw sdporter posted the video from Iraqeteran8888 in which Eric intentionally destroyed a muzzleoader with smokeless. It took quite a bit, too. I can only imagine what that kid had in his ML that would cause such a catastrophic failure.

However, I have gotten old enough to find that I am no longer surprised by the level of ignorance we confront daily. Seriously. Idaholewis and a bunch of you other hooligans have me on a mission to find Swiss 2F. On Thursday, I went into a local "branch" of one of those large box-type sportin' stores. I asked the kid (couldn't have been more than 21) behind the counter what they stocked in the way of Swiss Black Powder. His retort? He gave me a mildly, sort of customer-servicey condescending look, like 'oh, you poor, dumb, old bastard,' and said, "Well, I don't know if we have *Swiss* powder, sir, but you are aware that all gun powder is black, right?"

20 years ago, I would'a picked that fight. Today - not so much. I just left. Didn't ask for another salesman. Didn't ask for a manager. Didn't pass 'GO'. Didn't collect $200. I just said, "Thank you, son." and left.

And that's how we get people who get their muzzleloaders all blow'd up.

 

[MrTom]

JC....the bigger problem is that he probably was a high school graduate and attending college with stellar grades and GPA. If kids are not brought up in a household where guns and shooting sports exist he will likely not have a clue whether a ML or a cartridge gun.

I actually had a salesperson, maybe early twenties, ask me to pay with a card so he didn't have to make change.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I respectfully disagree MrTom. Ive worked in a couple sporting goods store and its my experience that 'the kid' is every bit as dumb as he sounds. A smart kid with good grades usually finds better summer jobs. Those stores pay crap and hire whoever will work the random part time hours and holidays for pennies. If they do get a smartie they typically figure it out quickly and move on. Ive seen on 2 occasions where a 20something took a gun in on trade and never even checked the chamber, just pulled the trigger and put a hole in the wall and ceiling. If they seem dumb chances are high that they ARE dumb. With age and experience comes wisdom and a degree doesnt make one smart.

 

[Matthew323]

I have seen young people that were cashier's at holiday sales times, brought to a complete standstill with absolute brain lock when the calculator was missing from their register station.

Trying to figure out something as simple as 35% off of $19.99

$19.99 ÷ 10 = $1.99
$1.99 × 3 = $5.97
$1.99 ÷ 2 = $0.98
$5.97 + $0.98 = $6.95
$19.99 - $6.95 = $13.04

Or even just rounding everything up to the nearest dollar, subtracting it from the retail price, and saying "Screw It to the Management for not having the calculator where it was supposed to be.

$20.00 ÷ 10 = $2.00
$2.00 × 3 = $6.00
$2.00 ÷ 2= $1.00
$6.00 + $1.00 = $7.00
$19.99 - $7.00= $12.99
A $0.05 loss to the Management.

I have witnessed men & women in their 30's down to teen boys & girls be paralyzed by this type of math.

They cannot do it in their heads, nor on paper with pencil or pen.

I really hate to say it, but this lack of the ability to critically think translates into every aspect of their lives.

It is if that EVERYYHING that they learned in highschool/college has become the sum TOTAL of what is going to guide them through life.

Even worse, these type of people seem to have ZERO curiosity for ANYTHING they don't already THINK THEY KNOW!!!

 

[snapbang]

Maybe don't blame it all on the kid. Did the store train him in his area or how to deal with customers? Do they actually care enough to see what area he may work best in. On the other hand a person needs to be able to do basic math and make change. Im thinking most of you are aware but there are a ton of different gun powders if you include cartridge pistol, shotgun, and rifle. I have about 15 on my shelf right now.

Perhaps his manager should say if you dont know the answer to a question ask the cutomer to wait while you ask an associate. So many times in my life I didnt have the answer and said just that. I dont think one person ever had a problem with that.

I think a lot of companies hire 10 people hoping 1 will stick.

 

[j_jim]

Not new to muzzleloaders been shooting them 20 years I guess. I thought I was good, then bulged my very new smokeless brux barrel. After shooting maybe 12 rounds of very tight three shot groups, It appeared I missed the target altogether. I was confused and walked down range to look and saw a stripe in the dirt 40 yards short of 100. Went back to look at my gun and scope, nothing seemed visibly out of the ordinary until I went to reload and noticed the spin jag was no longer on the end of my rod. Apparently it had come off and I shot it out. Ran my hand down the barrel and I could feel the bulge about 10 inches from the muzzle. Costly in dollars but at least it came out safely. Gun went in the case and I couldn't even look at it for weeks. It grounded me a bit, and added another mental check before I am ready to pull the trigger on my new barrel.

 

[jcnull2305]

You guys have my gears turning, now. Got me thinking that I made a mistake in not trying to educate the young man. I don't think he was stupid. He just didn't know what he was talking about when it came to that particular subject. I joined up here because, in the last 25 or so years, I've acquired 2 muzzleloaders. I have a basic foundation, but I want to learn more. Hell, I didn't know about Swiss BP until I came here! You guys are great! I've picked up on so much here in just a few days. There's an awe-inspiring amount of knowledge here, and everyone seems to be so open and kind.

My kids range in age from 22 to 2 (I have a bunch of kids), and my weans are smart people - for the most part - my oldest daughter is in medical school, but I'll be happy if I can keep my 2 year old out of jail - and whenever I've found that their knowledge is lacking in a particular area, I've tried to educate them.

This kid behind the gun counter at the Big Blah-Blah sporting good store should've known. He didn't, so maybe I should've taken an extra minute to explain it to him, or at least bring his lack of knowledge to the attention of someone there who could. I mean, it's not like he doesn't know how to size shirts or jeans at the clothing store - this boy was giving advice to other people about firearms, right? God forbid he "helps" someone with the acquisition of a new ML, and sends them home with a box of conicals, some Federal 215 LRM primers, and a pound of Hodgdon 4198!

The most damage is done, not by people who don't know, but by those that think they know.

 

[deerlessbob]

Let’s not discount the socially engineered public schools that kid probably attended and the everybody-gets-a- trophy sports he played.

 

[Daddymaggot]

You guy's crack me up, reading this post leads me to believe a good many of you judge the kids intelligence on lack of aquired knowledge when in fact your dealing with a generation of kids that couldn't use a rotary phone or stick shift to save there lives.
It falls on us to educate them for their own good. Mentor these kid, share the knowledge and dangers involved with the sport. We will all benefit and have less horror stories to tell.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

You guy's crack me up, reading this post leads me to believe a good many of you judge the kids intelligence on lack of aquired knowledge when in fact your dealing with a generation of kids that couldn't use a rotary phone or stick shift to save there lives.
It falls on us to educate them for their own good. Mentor these kid, share the knowledge and dangers involved with the sport. We will all benefit and have less horror stories to tell.

I agree that its our responsibility to help the kid gain knowledge. I was judging him based on my experience working in that same situation and environment. The kids arrogance is something that has to get knocked out of him. Only one way to fix that, he has to fail and learn from it. Ive seen many people not learn. Just get older and no smarter or wiser. Also, the gene pool can use some cleaning occasionally.

 

[jcnull2305]

This kid behind the gun counter at the Big Blah-Blah sporting good store should've known. He didn't, so maybe I should've taken an extra minute to explain it to him, or at least bring his lack of knowledge to the attention of someone there who could.

Don't look at me, Mom... I admitted my mistake!

 

[Matthew323]

I would agree on the responsibility to teach, but the person that is ignorant of what they need to be taught, NEEDS TO HAVE A DESIRE TO LEARN!!

Otherwise, the teacher is just pissing up a rope!!!

And, for those of us willing to teach that have been burned repeatedly by trying to teach those unwilling to be taught (but that pretend otherwise); recognizing the teachable moment in one that is willing to be taught, can sometimes be quite difficult.

 

[snapbang]

One problem I have is they are putting their "ear buds" in while Im trying to give instructions. More interested in the phone and music than trying to learn.

 

[Daddymaggot]

I totally agree and feel the same frustration, even my own post teen grand son has often had a know it all attitude, but we have to try, if not for our own sense of responsibility but for the future of the sport in general. With the rise of anti gun sentiments growing how many mangled adolescents do you think it's going to take before even black powder fall under the same scrutiny.
I think the first step is to convince the young numbskulls that the only difference between a muzzle loader and a pipebomb is loading.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Start that store kid out with not all powder is black, and not all 'black' powder is Black Powder.
#BlackPowderMatters

 

[snapbang]

I think the first step is to convince the young numbskulls that the only difference between a muzzle loader and a pipebomb is loading.

For a law abiding citizen the difference between a muzzle loader and a pipebomb is the intended use.