No Excuses load recommendation

[Hornet22savage]

I have been sitting on a box of 50 call 460 gr. No Excuses for a couple of years now. I have not had time to try them, however tomorrow that changes. I shoot BH out of a Knight KRB. I'm thinking of starting at 60 gr. by volume. Any other suggestions? Not looking to kill myself with recoil but is there a top end safety wise?

 

[Muley Hunter]

What are you hunting?

 

[Hornet22savage]

Whitetail, I'm looking for max accuracy.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Well, you know the routine. Start with 60gr and increase until accuracy falls off. Anything past 60gr will be fine for a whitetail if the distance is not too far. The more powder the flatter the trajectory.

I find with bullets that heavy I tend to shoot the powder load with the most recoil I want to take. Then adjust holdover from there.

 

[GM54-120]

You will probably want to stop at no more than 80gr by volume. That load in my 45cal rocks you pretty good. Its not abusive but its not a lot of fun on the bench either. Plus that will get you upto around 1400fps.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Yes, 80 grain Blackhorn allows one to experience some recoil. An attempt was made to catch this bullet, but it eluded. However it was FOUND. It seemed to do plenty of damage.

 

[dbowling]

I just sent Dave a link to the test thread and ask him about his bullet composition, just to see what it consists of.

Yes, 80 grain Blackhorn allows one to experience some recoil. An attempt was made to catch this bullet, but it eluded. However it was FOUND. It seemed to do plenty of damage.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I asked him about it a while ago. He said he uses pure lead. I believe him. They're pretty soft.

 

[bulletbusiness]

Hi-my name is Dave and I own No Excuses Bullets. I'm always interested is seeing what is being talked about and Dean was considerate enough to share a video clip. The clip was a bit over dramatized but interesting. The original bullet in the clip looked pretty beat up and maybe even loaded once by evidence of the rifling marks. As for water testing the durability of a bullet.....ballistic gelatin is a much better indicator of expansion characteristics. It's fun to watch water explode though, I guess? Not sure how a person could tell if a bullet was cast by hand or in a machine. A mold is a mold if it's treated correctly. And pure lead can be cast in a machine, magma, ballisticast or others just fine. Machines don't demand alloyed lead although alloyed lead does produce better looking bullets that stay shiny and have few dents in them. Pure lead oxidizes as indicated by the "before" picture in the dramatization. My bullets are made from pure lead. They have to be to enable them to be loaded with ease but also allow them to engage the riflings on the way out after obturating. I don't make any other bullets but those made of pure lead. I did tinker with a 2% tin alloying for a cape buffalo hunt but not commercially. I have several photos of bullets on my website (muzzleloading-bullets.com) that have been recovered from game that show their true kinetic energy transfer. Hard (alloyed) bullets don't mushroom well-just punch holes with little energy transfer. Military ball ammo is a good example of this. Just trying to clear the air. I can tell you that we have added a variety of weights and sized diameters this year. Check us out! Dave

 

[Muley Hunter]

Hi Dave,

Good to see you show up here. We talk about your bullets here from time to time. Always positive. Hard to beat a big hunk of lead.

Pete Gaimari

 

[ronlaughlin]

.....The clip was a bit over dramatized...... As for water testing the durability of a bullet.....ballistic gelatin is a much better indicator of expansion characteristics.......

Dave,

It very well may be true that gelatin is a better indicator, however in this case it isn't really relevant. Reason being is several bullets have been compared using the very same set. Using the very very same set to compare different bullets is what is important. HERE is a list of several comparisons. In each case, the same exact type water jugs were used. In each case carpet glued to 3/8" plywood was placed in front of the water jugs. In each case the distance between the rifle, and the carpet was 25 yard -- 26 yard. This provided a way for us to compare bullets. What we wanted to do was to compare bullets.

There was no dramatization in the clip. Perhaps it seemed so, because i was very pleased to find the bullet that got away. Perhaps i was having too much fun. One thing is true, it doesn't matter to me how the bullets perform, i just share the findings.

 

[52Bore]

Welcome Dave.
I would have guessed your bullet to be harder than pure lead.
Had to go back and look at all the conicals (6 different solids) that Ron's has tested with 80grV BH209.

Ed 359gr; Art 448gr; NoE 460gr

Ed 465; Art(FL) 500gr; 542gr

 

[Muley Hunter]

That's an eye opener. I would have thought the NoExcuses would have flattened out like the others.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I have shot several hundred no excuses and the ones I have recovered all had good expansion, just like you would expect from pure lead .

 

[Muley Hunter]

I have shot several hundred no excuses and the ones I have recovered all had good expansion, just like you would expect from pure lead .

That can be good and bad. If you recovered them they didn't leave two holes, but since you recovered them the animals were dead. Hard to argue with dead game. Even with just one hole.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I have shot several hundred no excuses and the ones I have recovered all had good expansion, just like you would expect from pure lead .

That can be good and bad. If you recovered them they didn't leave two holes, but since you recovered them the animals were dead. Hard to argue with dead game. Even with just one hole.

For every “one” shot into an animal there were at least “200” shot into targets

 

[Muley Hunter]

Always a good thing, but it doesn't help the bullet work any better. :wink:

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

Always a good thing, but it doesn't help the bullet work any better. :wink:

Nope , just explains why I have recovered a few of them .

 

[Muley Hunter]

Not sure we're on the same wave length. You're saying you recovered some of them because you practice a lot. I'm saying you recovered them because they didn't pass through. I'm talking about terminal performance and you're talking about hitting the target.

When you have both you have a dead critter.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I just got an email from Dave. Here's the latest 2018 lineup. I like the idea of the 420gr in .504. I may have to try those.





We’ve finally settled in with the 2018 bullet line. It includes a lot of changes I think you’ll appreciate.



First of all there are two new additions to the 50 caliber lineup. They are the 420 grain and 600 grain bullets. I’ve heard over the years that the 600 grain bullets previously available were invaluable for certain hunting situations. I resisted as long as I possibly could but the demand seemed undeniable. Preliminary reports have been very promising. Check that off the list………………………



As the news of the upcoming 600s started circulating I starting getting more calls than ever asking for something lighter than the 460 grain 50 caliber bullets. As most of you probably know that bullet has been our bread and butter for several years and we were surprised at the requests for a lighter bullet. Similar to the 600s I decided to design the 420 grain bullet in an attempt to fill that lighter 50 caliber bullet niche. Preliminary reports would appear that we hit that one directly on the head. Folks that have shot it-love it. Less recoil and great accuracy. Check that one off the list……..



Now that we have several different weight bullets in the 50 caliber line up, there were several requests for a sampler pack of each so you could experiment with each and see which shot best out of your particular firearm. Soooooooooo, we now offer a sampler pack that contains 12 bullets of each of the 50 caliber bullets. That’s 12 of the 420s, 460s, 495s and 600s. Check that off the list……….



Then there were those that had mumbled that the .503 diameter bullets were still a bit loose for their liking. So we have started offering the 420s and 460s in .504 diameter to better meet the needs of those folks. We may in the future offer the 600s in .504 but that is some time down the road. Check that off the list………



Best I can tell, I have checked everything off the list that I have promised, considered or even wondered about. Sabots? Not in the near future!



Anyway, I think I’ve done my part in offering a pretty comprehensive bullet line up that should cover most everyone’s needs this fall. Now it’s up to you. Don’t wait til the last couple weeks of the summer to start ordering. As most of you know, I’m pretty much a one-man operation around here and when the hunts start, I’ll be gone a week at a time throughout the fall. I hunt several different states so be patient if I don’t answer you immediately. Your order may just be waiting for my return to be filled. I have plenty of stock on hand if you can ever catch me.



Hope the website (muzzleloading-bullets.com) is operating satisfactorly and you’re able to process orders quickly. Your comments/suggestions are always welcome and are a testiment that they never fall on deaf ears.



Regards, Dave